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diff --git a/35379.txt b/35379.txt deleted file mode 100644 index 608b463..0000000 --- a/35379.txt +++ /dev/null @@ -1,10309 +0,0 @@ - Slave Narratives - - Volume X: Missouri Narratives - - -This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with almost -no restrictions whatsoever. You may copy it, give it away or re-use it -under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included with this -eBook or online at http://www.gutenberg.org/license. - -Title: Slave Narratives: A Folk History of Slavery in the United States -From Interviews with Former Slaves: Volume X, Missouri Narratives - -Author: Work Projects Administration - -Release Date: February 23, 2011 [EBook #35379] - -Language: English - -Character set encoding: US-ASCII - -*** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK SLAVE NARRATIVES: A FOLK -HISTORY OF SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES FROM INTERVIEWS WITH FORMER -SLAVES: VOLUME X, MISSOURI NARRATIVES *** - - - - -Produced by the Online Distributed Proofreading Team at -http://www.pgdp.net. - -SLAVE NARRATIVES - - -_A Folk History of Slavery in the United States_ - -_From Interviews with Former Slaves_ - - -TYPEWRITTEN RECORDS PREPARED BY - -THE FEDERAL WRITERS' PROJECT - -1936-1938 - -ASSEMBLED BY - -THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS PROJECT - -WORK PROJECTS ADMINISTRATION - -FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA - -SPONSORED BY THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS - - -_Illustrated with Photographs_ - -WASHINGTON 1941 - - -VOLUME X - -MISSOURI NARRATIVES - - -Prepared by the Federal Writers' Project of - -the Works Progress Administration - -for the State of Missouri - -[HW:] Handwritten note - -[TR:] Transcriber's note - - - - -INFORMANTS - - - - James Monroe Abbot - - Betty Abernathy - - Hannah Allen - - W.C. Parson Allen - - Charles Gabriel Anderson - - Jane Baker - - Mary A. Bell - - William Black - - George Bollinger - - Annie Bridges - - Betty Brown - - Steve Brown - - Richard Bruner - - Robert Bryant - - Alex Bufford - - Harriet Casey - - Joe Casey - - Lula Chambers - - Emmaline Cope - - Peter Corn - - Ed Craddock - - Isabelle Daniel [TR: Mrs. Eli Daniel] - - Henry Dant - - Lucy Davis - - Mary Divine - - Mary Douthit - - John Estell - - Smoky Eulenberg - - Ann Ulrich Evans - - James Goings - - Rachael Goings - - Sarah Frances Shaw Graves (Aunt Sally) - - Emily Camster Green - - Lou Griffin - - Louis Hamilton - - Fil Hancock - - Dave Harper - - Clara McNeely Harrell - - Joe Higgerson - - Delia Hill - - Louis Hill - - Rhody Holsell - - Henry Johnson - - Hannah Jones - - Emma Knight - - Harriet Lee - - Mattie Lee [HW: Head] - - Wes Lee - - Perry McGee - - John McGuire - - Eliza Madison - - Drucilla and Richard Martin - - Hattie Matthews - - Letha Taylor Meeks - - Wylie Miller - - Lewis Mundy - - Malinda Murphy - - Margaret Nickens - - Eliza Overton - - Delicia Ann Wiley Patterson (Lucinda) - - Marilda Pethy - - Susan Rhodes - - Charlie Richardson - - Madison Frederick Ross - - Alice Sewell - - Perry Sheppard - - Frank Sides - - Mollie Renfro Sides - - Jane Simpson - - Clay Smith - - Gus Smith - - Ann Stokes - - Edward Taylor - - Tishey Taylor - - Louis Thomas - - Jane Thompson - - Sarah Waggoner - - Minksie (Minksy) Walker - - James Wilson - - Mintie Gilbert Wood - - Ellaine Wright - - Sim Younger - -*ILLUSTRATIONS* - -Sarah Frances Shaw Graves -Drucilla and Richard Martin - - - - - - - -James Monroe Abbot - - - *Interview with James Monroe Abbot,* - *Cape Girardeau, Missouri.* - -"I's born on December 25, 1854. My muthuh wuz Allie Ann Lane. Aftuh -'mancipation I tuk my daddies name Abbot--he wuz Anthony Abbot, an' -belonged to Ole' Joe Abbot, a neighbor. Our Mastuh wuz Joe Lane an' our -Missus wuz Jane Knox Lane. Dey had a girl, Barbara Ellen, an' two boys, -Tom en' Ed. Latuh years dey had more boys but I nevuh knowd dem. - -"De white folks house wuz big, wid porches, an flowers all aroun', an -sweet locust trees in de do' yard. Dis wuz up in Perry County, a few -miles fum Seventy Six Landing. - -"When Ole Mastuh died, dat wuz de fathuh ob young Mastuh Joe--he war -sick a long time. Dar he lay fum openin' o' spring, 'bout de time flies -cum, 'til wheat-sowin' time in de fall. An' it's de God's trufe, all dat -time he made me stan' side o' his bed--keepin' de flies offen him, I wuz -jes seben year ole but dere I had tuh stan, day en night, night en day. -Co'se I'd sleep sumtimes wen he wuz sleepin'. Sumtimes when I'd doze, my -bresh ud fall on he's face, den he'd take he's stick an' whack me a few -across de haid an' he'd say, 'Now I dare you to cry.' I cried, but he -didden see me do it. - -"But at las' he died. Jane came in an' said, 'He's daid. You can go out -to play now James.' She ustah come in to Ole Mastuh an say, 'Why don' -you let him go out tuh play an' let someone else stan' here?' But Ole -Mastuh say, 'No! I want James.' So now I runs outside--I meets ma sister -an I says: 'By God, he's daid.' I didden know I wus cussin', she say 'I -gonna tell Muthuh on you,' but I's so glad to be out, I runs till I meet -Uncle Rube an' I says, 'By God, he's daid,' den I runs an meets ma -Muthuh, an' I tells her 'By God, he's daid.' She jes kinda turned her -back tuh me an' I cud see her shakin'. She war laffin'! - -"Aftuh de buryin' was over, Young Joe an' Jane stood dar on de porch an' -dey call de darkies up one at a time. Fust dey calls ma Grampa an' young -Joe says, 'Yo ole Mastuh's daid. Now I's you' Mastuh, an' Miss Jane here -is your Missus. Do you unnerstand dat?' Grampa say 'Yessir' an pass on. -Nex' he call Lucy, den Aunt Hanna. To each one he says de same, 'I's -yore Mastuh and Miss' Jane here is yore New Missus'--sum ob' em says -'Yessir', sum ob' em jes kinda bows dey haid an' pass on. Wen he call -mah Muthuh up an' say de same tuh her--she look at him a minit den she -say, 'I know'd yuh all dese year as Joe an' her as Jane, an' I ain't -gonna start now callin' you Mastuh or Missus. I'll call you Joe an' Jane -like I allus done,' an' she walked away. - -"One time 'fore dat she puddin near kill young Joe. She wuh hoeing corn -in de field an he cum ridin'--I spect he war jes tryin' to be smaht but -he tells her to swallow dat tobbaccy she got in huh mouth. She don' pay -him no mind an' he tell her agin. Den she say, 'You chewing tobaccy? -Whyn't yuh swaller dat?' Dat make him mad and he take a double rope en -whack her cross de sholders. Den she grab huh fingers roun' his throat, -an his face wuh all black es my own 'fore dey pulls her offen him. Den -Ole Mastuh try tuh whup her, but he couldn' by hisself, so he sends fo' -three nigger-buyers dat's close by. When one o' em tells muthuh to put -her han's togedder so he tie em, she grab him by de collar an' de seat -o' he's pants an knock's his haid agin a post like a battern' ram. Den -Ole Mastuh say, 'Men, yo' better go on home. I don' want my cullud folks -to git hurt.' He said it like dat. - -"My Muthuh wuz big an' strong. She nevuh worked in de house none but dey -warn't nothin' on de place dat she couldn' do. She cud cut down a big -tree en chop off a rail length an' use a wedge an' maul an' make rails -as good as anybody. Pore Muthuh, she shore did have a hard time. Dey -warn't never nuthin' for her but work hard all de time, she neveh came -in fum de fiel' 'til dark, den had to feed wid a lantern. - -"George Swan, a neighbor used tuh whup ole Felix with a -cat-o'-nine-tails til we'd hear him holler over at our place. - -"I 'member one time de snow wuz a foot deep an I had tuh gathuh corn. I -wuz barefooted an' barehanded. Mah feet hurt so bad an' mah hands got so -stiff I couldn' work mah fingers, but ah had tuh keep on breakin' off de -corn. Dat night mah feet crack open an' nex' mahnin' when I had tuh make -de fires I lef' a track o' blood across de' flo.' Dey shore wuz mean to -us but God Bless you, dey's all daid an' gone an' de Lawd has spared me. - -"Wen de war cum, lots o' cullud men went off to fight fo de Government. -Young Mastuh Joe nevuh went but whenever de sojers cum aroun' Mastuh Joe -couldn' nevuh be foun.' - -"One time a passel a' sojers cum to de place, dey didden go to de big -house, but dat night dey spread straw fum de straw pile on de flo ob our -cabin--an' slep dar. We slep in de loft. Nex' mornin' dey went to de -barn an' took de bran' new wagon an' de bes' team o' mules an' dey went -to de smoke house an' hep deysefs. Dar wuz one man standin' on de wagon -cuttin' down de hams an' side meat an' de udder packin' it in de wagon. -Jane cum out on de porch an' start raisin' a ruccus 'bout 'em takin' her -meat. De sojer whut wuz cuttin' down de meat pull out he's gun an' say -'Whut dat she say?' Jane run in de house quick--but he got mad de way -she talk an' den' he take _all_ a de meat an' cans o' lard, an a barrel -of molasses. We ain't nevuh seed dat wagon agin an' it wuz bran' new. - -"Dey wuz a battle a few mile away an' dey said you couldn' walk on de -groun' wifout steppin on daid men. - -"Wen de war wuz over dey didden want us to know 'bout it. Dey want to -keep us es long es dey could. But it cum out in de papers dat de Guvment -men wuz gonna cum round an' see so dey had tuh turn us loose. - -"Abe Lincoln wuz de honestest President we evuh had. Ef it warn't fo' -him we'd still be in bondage. - -"If you puts two hoss-shoes above youh door--one up an' one down--it'll -shore catch de wiches if dey tries tuh come through. - -"One time it wuz in de evenin' I wuz puttin hay in de pen fo de hosses -at night, an I see a big white light a-cummin' up de lane jes a little -above de top o' de fence. It wuz big an' shiny white. I wuzn' rightly -skeered but I stood dere watchin' it. It cum up an followed de' fence to -de road. I watched to see did it go to de graveyard, an' shure nuf it -did. It meant sumpin' but I don' know whut. An den one day, 'bout noon I -seed sumpin. I wuz out side dar an a little dog cum towards me. It wo' a -bright collar, shinin' like, an' pretty. I ain't nevuh seed nuthin' like -it. I goes to it an calls, 'Heah puppy, heah puppy.' It stan dere n' -look at me fir a minit den turn an' jump ovuh dat ten rail fence an' is -lost in de tall weeds. Now you know no natchel puppy could jump ovuh a -ten-rail fence. I goes in an tells Hanna de cook 'bout it an' she say, -'Lawd ha' mercy! dat's a token fo' sumpin. I don' know whut--mebby -somebody gonna die, but it sho' is a token.'" - - - - -Betty Abernathy - - - *Interview with Betty Abernathy,* - *Cape Girardeau, Missouri.* - -"My muthuh brought me to Cape Girardeau in 1862, an' I was 'bout ten -yeah ol' at dat time. Huh name was Malissa Abernathy an' she tole' me -that 'Ole Massa' John Abernathy was mah daddy. 'Ole Massa' was mean to -his cullud folks and so was 'Ole Missis Willie'. - -"We lived up in Perry County. The white folk had a nice big house an' -they was a number of poor little cabins fo' us folks. Ours was one room, -built of logs, an' had a puncheon floor. 'Ole 'Massa' had a number of -slaves but we didden' have no school, 'ner church an' mighty little -merry-makin'. Mos'ly, we went barefooted the yeah 'round. - -"My muthuh an' some of the othuh women done the weavin' an' sewin'. I -learned to spin, I could fill broaches and spin as good as any of 'em. -One time 'Ole' Tom Johnson, the 'nigger-buyer' come up frum Little Rock. -He was go'in to buy muthuh an' her family, and take us to Arkansas, but -'bout that time they was so much talk 'bout freein' the slaves, he was -'fraid to. - -"Mostly we had right fair eatin's. We didn't go into the big house much, -jes' on cleanin' days an' such like. - -"Ole Massa' often hired his cullud folks out to neighbuh farmuh an' he -didden' care how they was treated. One time my two brothers was hired -out an' in the evenin' they came an' tole muthuh they was goin' to run -away 'cause they's treated so mean. She begged 'em not to come there to -hide 'cause they'd find 'em 'shore, an' most likely kill 'em right -before her eyes. They got away an' 'Ole Massa' come to the cabin to -search fo' 'em. When muthuh tole him she didn't know where they was, he -tied a rope 'round huh neck, an' tied the other end to the raftuhs. Then -he beat her to make her tell. - -"Aftuh this we was treated so mean that a neighbor helped us escape. -We-all got in a big wagon, 'bout ten or twelve of us, an' druv us to the -Cape, where they's sojers who'd protect us. - -"I remembuh when we got there, they put us in a long, low, frame house, -that stood on the cornuh where Mr. Hecht now lives. Here we lived fo' a -long time. Muthuh an' I had no trouble findin' work to do. She hired me -out fo' twenty-five cents a week an' I was so proud to be earnin' money -that I nevuh thought 'bout learnin' to read or write." - - - - -Hannah Allen - - - *Interview with "Aunt" Hannah Allen,* - *Fredericktown, Missouri.* - - _God Got A Hold On Her_ - -One of the oldest ex-slaves encountered in Missouri is "Aunt" Hannah -Allen of Fredericktown, who claims she is 107 years old. According to -Madison County records, Aunt Hannah gave her age as 82 when she made -application for a marriage license in Fredericktown in 1912. - -In spite of her extreme age, Aunt Hannah is able to do all of the work -around her house and she frequently walks up town and back, a distance -of several blocks. Her eyesight is very good and even at her advanced -age she does not have to wear glasses. She claims her grandfather was a -white man and she attributes her unusual health to several causes. She -was well treated as a slave during her younger years when she was under -the ownership of a family named Bollinger. She is childless and has been -content to live on the same spot during the last 71 years. Being a -Negro, she naturally does not take life seriously but as she expresses -it "jes' lives it like it comes". - -In reviewing the incidents which she was able to recall on the occasion -of the writer's recent visit to her home, she outlined her story as -follows: - -"Down in Pocahontas, Arkansas, a man had 400 slaves and de boss would -allow an old colored man to have meetins every Saturday night and of a -Friday night dey would have a class meeting. Several of dem got religion -right out in de field and would kneel down in de cornfield. De boss went -home and told his wife he thought de slaves was losin' their minds -'cause dey was all kneeling down in de field. De boss' daughter also got -religion and went down to de mourners' bench. De colored church finally -made de boss and his whole family get religion. De old white mistress -would sing and pray while she washed dishes, milked de cows, and made -biscuits. So dey called de doctor and he come and said dat God had got a -hold on her. - -"One of de darkies had a baby out in de field about eleven o'clock one -morning. De doctor come out there to her. She was sick a long time -'cause she got too hot before de chile was born. After dis happened de -boss got to be a better man. Dis old boss at first would not let the -darkies have any church meetins. - -"On Sunday dere at home de colored folks could get all de water dat ran -from de maple trees. De slaves would get through their work for de boss -and den dere would sometimes be three days when dey could work for -themselves. Den dey would get paid for working for others and den buy -clothes. Dey had de finest boots. - -"Dey did not want de mistress to tell me when we was free 'cause dere -was only two of us slaves left there. De other slaves already done run -off. I did not want to leave. When I was a slave I learned to do a job -right or do it over. I learned to sew, cook, and spin. We set by de -fireside and picked a shoe full of cotton and den we could go to bed. -But you did a lot before you got dat shoe full of cotton when it was -pressed down. Dis was almost enough to pad a quilt with. De white -children would be getting their lessons den and dey used a pine torch -for a light to see by. - -"I was paid nothin' after slavery but just stayed with de boss and dey -gave me things like a calf, clothes, and I got to go to church with dem -and to camp meetings and picnics. Dey would have big basket meetings -with pies, hogs, sheep and de like. Dey did not allow me to go with -other colored girls if dey had no character. We all set down and ate at -de same table with de white folks and tended de sick together. Today if -de parents would make their children do like dey did in slavery, den we -would have a better race. I was better off dan de free people. I think -dat slavery taught me a lot. - -"In Fredericktown I worked for my mistress' sister and made $10 a month. -My father told me to always keep myself clean and nice and to comb my -hair. When I lived in Fredericktown de people I worked for always tried -to keep me from going out with de low class. After I washed de supper -dishes, I would have to go upstairs and cut out quilts and I did not -like it but it was good for me. - -"My first husband gave $50 for dis lot I am living on. Dat was just at -de end of de war. He hauled de logs and chinked and white-washed dem and -we had two rooms and a hall. It was a good, nice, warm house. He was a -carpenter. About twenty-five years later my husband built him a frame -house here and dug him a well. He had 4 dozen chickens, 15 head of hogs, -2 horses, 2 wagons, and a buggy to go back and forth to de church at -Libertyville, New Tennessee, or Pilot Knob. We lived together fifty -years before he died. He left me dis home, three horses, 3 milk cows and -three hogs. - -"We had no children but 'dopted a little boy. He was my husband's -sister's child. De boy's mother took a notion that she wanted to work -out and she was just a young girl so we took de boy at about de age of -three and he was with us about six years. He went to a colored school -den but a white teacher taught him. We adopted a girl too from Marquand. -De girl's father was a colored man and de mother was a white woman. De -woman den married a white man in Marquand and her husband did not want -de child so we took her at about three years old. We did not have her no -time 'til she died. We have helped to raise about a dozen children. But -I have quit doing dat now. I now has my second husband; he always liked -to have children around but we ain't had none of our own. - -"When my first husband died, he did not owe fifteen cents. He just would -not go in debt to nobody. He attended de Masonic lodge. After he died I -went to work. I brought wood, washed, ironed, and cooked. I have made as -high as $15 a week and keep. I took care of a man's children after him -and his wife separated. We have had two houses burn down right here. One -of our houses was a little too close to Saline Creek and it was -condemned and we tore it down and built de one we have now, thirteen -years ago. Harry Newberry has a mill and he give us de lumber to build -dis house. - -"We have a lot in de colored graveyard. I have no insurance but Mr. -Allen has some kind of insurance, so if he gets hurt traveling he will -get something. We is getting, together, $25 in pensions a month and we -is living pretty well right now. Some months we spend from seven to -eight dollars on food. Almost everything is cash for us. I been going -barefoot about ten years. I come mighty near going barefoot in de winter -time. We been getting a pension about two years and we was on relief for -two or three years before dat. Our biggest debt is a doctor bill of -about $60. - -"Some of de colored folks is better off now and some is worser. De young -race says we who was slaves is ten times worse off den dey 'cause we had -bosses and couldn't read or write. But I say de young race is got all -dis to go by and dey ought to be much better off dan dey is. We is -better off in one sense dan de young race 'cause about half of dem don't -know how to raise their children and dey don't know how to do nothing. I -think our folks has just as good a chance now as de white folks but dey -don't get cultivated. Dey say today dat I don't know nothing 'cause I -was a slave and all I learned was what de master learnt me. But I know -enough to keep out of devilment. I think all dis speed shows dat people -ain't got no sense at all." - - *Interview with Aunt Hannah Allen,* - *aged 107, Fredericktown, Mo.* - *Interviewed by J. Tom Miles.* - -"I's born in 1830 on Castor River 'bout fourteen miles east of -Fredericktown, Mo. My birthday is December 24. Yes, sir, I is 107 years -old dey say and dey got de records up there in de court house to prove -it. De first time I married Adam Wringer in 1866 and was married by -Squire Addison in Fredericktown. In 1912 on August 11 me and de parson -was married in de Methodist church here and dis was de largest one in -Fredericktown. 'Bout six or seven hundred come for de celebration. I -guess I is 'bout de oldest person in Madison County. - -"My father come from Perry County. He was named Abernathy. My father's -father was a white man. My white people come from Castor and dey owned -my mother and I was two years old when my mother was sold. De white -people kept two of us and sold mother and three children in New Orleans. -Me and my brother George was kept by de Bollingers. This was in 1832. De -white people kept us in de house and I took care of de babies most of de -time but worked in de field a little bit. Dey had six boys. - -"Our house joined on to de house of de white folks. Many times I slept -on de floor in front of de fireplace near de mistress. Dey got hold of a -big buffalo rug and I would sleep on it. De Bollinger boy, Billy -Bollinger, would go to de cabin and sleep with George, my brother. Dey -thought nothing of it. Old man Bollinger sent some colored folks up to -his farm in Sabula and Billy cried to go long with dem. He let Billy go. -I stayed with old Aunt Betsy on Castor River. - -"Before de Civil War broke out we were at Sabula and a Mr. Schafer and -Mr. Bollinger started to take de slaves to Texas. Dey got as far as -Rockport, near Hot Springs. A man by de name of John Higdon from -Colorado married Olive Bollinger and he was injured in de arm in de -Battle of Fredericktown. Den John Higdon went to Rockport after he was -shot and had taken de oath of allegiance. Higdon's wife died in Rockport -and she had a child two years old. I took de baby to care for. De wife -was to be buried back home so dey took de body in a wagon with just a -sheet over it towards Little Rock. I was sitting in de wagon holding de -two year old baby. On de way 'bout ten miles out we were captured by -Federal soldiers and took back to Rockport. De body was put in a room -for two weeks and den placed in a vault above de ground and stayed dar -for 'bout eight years before Mr. Higdon took it back home to bury. - -"Higdon took me and his child to 'bout eight miles from Hot Springs to a -hotel he had bought. Once he come up to de hotel with two government -horses and put me and de child on a horse and we were on de way to -Little Rock. We rode dat way for 'bout two weeks and was captured again -near Benton. Higdon had on a Union cape. De soldiers asked us all 'bout -de horses, guns, child, etc. De soldiers let him keep his gun 'cause dey -said it wouldn't kill a flea. But dey cut de buttons off de coat, and -took de spurs off of his heels and said he could not go any further. Dey -took me and de baby and made us sit on de ground. De soldiers took -Higdon to de river. It was late in de day. Dey said dey was going to -transfer him back to Missouri and sell de horses. Higdon had papers from -Col. Lowe and Chambers. De soldiers were Masons and after a while dey -all come back just a-laughing and shaking hands. - -"We were put on a boat at Little Rock going toward St. Louis. De child -took de small pox from a lady on de boat. When we got on de boat dey -were firing at the wheels of de boat from across de river. I was feeding -de baby and de chamber-maid come out and said, 'I would drown him'. I -said, 'If you do dat you will have to drown me too'. Dey had Higdon -locked up on de boat and he did not get to see de baby for two weeks -when we got to St. Louis. Just as we got to St. Louis, two white ladies -saw de baby who was so sick and dey went out and got some clothes for -it. De doctor come on de boat and vaccinated me. De sores on the baby -were as big as half dollars. - -"Den after we got to St. Louis we went to Whitworth's in Ironton, -Missouri. Higdon was on de back porch and a soldier shot at him and took -him to headquarters dat night. Whitworth had some soldiers take us to -Sabula, twenty-five miles away. De soldiers den took Higdon back to -Ironton until de war was over. Higdon married three times. - -"John, the baby, was raised by his grandmother and step-mother in St. -Louis. John married the daughter of a county clerk in Luxemburg, -Missouri. And he became county clerk for thirty years in dis county. -John died 'bout two years ago this July. - -"I 'member how dey would treat one slave. De master took two boards and -tied one to de feet and another to de hands and tied her back with ropes -and whipped her with a cat-o'-nine-tails till she bled and den took salt -and pepper and put in de gashes. I can 'member when I was in Iron County -de soldiers stole de boss' horse and de boss had to go to Patton to git -it. Once de soldiers made me get up in de smoke house and throw down -some ham. De authorities 'gaged de soldiers for stealing from de people. -I had to carry some stuff out for Sam Hildebrand to eat. - -"I've been living here since de Civil War. Dis is de third house that I -built on dis spot. What I think 'bout slavery? Well we is gettin' 'long -purty well now and I believe it's best to not agitate." - - - - -W.C. Parson Allen - - - *Interview with W.C. Parson Allen,* - *aged 78, Fredericktown, Mo.* - *Interviewed by J. Tom Miles.* - -"I's born in Harrison County, in 1859 and was raised in Georgetown, -Scott County. Yes, I was born a slave. My boss was John McWiggin, a -Scotch-Irishman, who raised hogs, sheep, hemp, and darkies. He had 'bout -230 darkies on de place. We lived in log cabins. Dey had slip doors for -de windows. Man, what you talkin' 'bout? We never saw a window glass. -Had 'bout fourteen cabins and dey was placed so dat de old master could -sit on his porch and see every one of dem. My mistress was Alice -McWiggin. - -"I was kep' busy shooin' flies off de table with a pea-fowl brush, -watching de chickens, and gettin' de maple sugar from de root of de -trees. We made a pocket at de base of de tree and dipped out de sugar -water with a bucket. Had 'bout 40 or 50 trees along de road. Had all -kinds of berries. We never got no whippin', only a little boxin'. In -church we sat on one side and de whites on de other. De white preacher -always read a special text to de darkies, and it was this, 'Servants, -obey your master.' - -"John McWiggin was a son of a Federal. His brother, Keenie, was a -Confederate. When de Confederate army come Keenie took de silver goblets -down to de creek and gave de soldiers water to drink. Den when de other -soldiers come Johnie would help his crowd. De soldiers took Mac's -iron-gray saddle hosses to Lexington, and de boss had to pay $500 to get -de hosses back. He got some of his mules back. De bushwackers and -nightriders were here. But de boss got 'round it this way. He had de -slaves dig trenches 'cross de road and tie grape vines over it. Den have -de darkies go up on de hill and sing corn songs. Den de nightriders come -a-rushing and sometimes dey would get four or five whites in these -raids. It would kill de men and horses too, when dey fell into de -trench. On Saturday night we had a shindig. We would eat chicken and -pound cake and of course whiskey made in Kentucky. De jail was called de -watch-house. - -"After de war de government instituted religious trainin' 'mong de -colored people and gave dem white teachers. I was in Lexington, Ky., -when I learned my letters. Just how dese latter-day children learn to -read without de letters is a mystery to me. - -"I's one of de preachers of de church here and am a deacon, too. I -studied at de University of Louisville, where I was a theological -student, and was one of de main orators in de school. - -"I've married a lot of 'em, in Poplar Bluff, Kennett, Farmington, and -Fredericktown, and have preached quite a few funerals. Have preached -some brush arbor sermons and stood under a arbor when we was married. I -baptized 42 in Pennsylvania. - -"I ain't eligible enough to express 'bout slavery. I ain't sayin' -nothing." - - - - -Charles Gabriel Anderson - - - *Interview with* - *Charles Gabriel Anderson,* - *St. Louis, Missouri.* - - _Hale And Hearty At 119_ - -Charles Gabriel Anderson, 119 years old, lives at 1106 Biddle Street in -St. Louis alone. He is 5 feet, 3 inches in height, has mixed gray hair -and weighs 145 pounds. - -He is slightly bent, but does not have to wear glasses, and is able to -go anywhere in the city without assistance. He has a good memory, and -cheerful attitude. Seated in the church of God in Christ, a store front -church, next door to his home, where he attends because of the -convenient location, he tells the writer the following story: - -"I was born January 5, 1818 in Huntsville, Alabama de son of Sallie -McCree and George Bryant. My owner's name was Miss Margaret Tony. She -sold me to Edmond Bryant while I was quite young. I sometimes go by de -name of Bryant. - -"I was just big enough to carry water and help a bit with farming while -Miss Tony had me, but I jedge I was 'bout 14 years old when Mr. Bryant -got me, 'cause I was old enough to plow and help with de cotton and I -done a man's size work in his field. I was his slave when de war broke -out. I joined de army in 1864. I used to git a pension of $65 a month, -now I only git $56 a month but last month I didn't git no check at all. -I don't know why. Wish I could find out 'cause I needs it bad to live -on. I used to nurse de white folks children when I was a little boy. I -made a better nurse dan most girls, so jest kept on at it till I was old -enough to be a field hand. - -"I had a hard time till de war broke out. Soon as I got a chance, I run -off and went to de army. I served two years and six months. I come out -in 1866. 'Course I was in de hospital till '66. I don't know how long I -was in der wounded. But I do know when I got better, I was such a good -nurse de doctors kept me in de government hospital to help nurse dem -other soldiers and dere sure 'nough was a heap of 'em up dere. Dat was -in Madison, Wisconsin. After dey turned me loose from de hospital, I -went to work in a barber shop up dere. I worked in it one year to learn -de trade. After I learned de barber trade I don't remember how much -longer I stayed dere. I left dere and went to Dodgeville, Wisconsin and -opened a barber shop of my own and run it about two or three years. Den -I went to Dubuque, Iowa, and stayed about one year and barbered in a -hotel dere. - -"I come to St. Louis in 1876 and started being a roust-about and firing -on boats. I changed from dat after awhile and went to driving private -carriages and done glass cleaning. - -"I got what little education I got, 'tending night school here in St. -Louis. I got 'nough to git ordained in de Chamber Street Baptist Church -for a preacher. Den I come in holiness in Elder Jones, Church of God in -Christ on Kennerly Avenue. I pastored the Macedonia Spiritual Church -eight years in East St. Louis, Ill. I been married twice and am de -father of three children, all dead, and both wifes dead. I don't know -how long none of 'em been dead. My mother died while I was in de army -and my father got drowned before I was born. I only had two sisters and -three brothers, and dey is all dead. My brother, Jim Bryant, died in de -army. He enlisted one year before I did, but in a different regiment. I -has voted many times in my life time, and always voted Republican till -dis last election, I decided I better vote de Democrat ticket and I did, -and I don't regret it either. - -"I gits my washing done by de neighbors dat do washing and I eat at de -restaurant on de corner. De Ku Klux never bothered me none 'cause I -stayed up north out of dere reach. - -"I 'member de old slaves used to sing: 'Amazing Grace How Sweet De -Sound'; 'I want to be a Soldier, Since de Lord has set me Free'; -'Fighting for Liberty'; 'Why Should We Start, and Fear to Die'; 'Death -is the Gate to Endless Joy and Yet We Dread to Enter There'; 'The pain, -the groan, the dying strife, rights our approaching souls away'; 'Jesus -can make a dying bed, soft as downy pillows are, whilst on his breast, I -lean my head and breathe our lives out sweetly there'. - -"Sister, I just think dis younger generation is gone totally. Dey ain't -taught right in de home, and de teachers can't do a thing with 'em. If -it wasn't for de prayers goin' up to de throne of grace from all us old -saints what's got sense enough to trust in nothin' else but Jesus, de -whole business would be gone plum to rack. Dey ain't even got sense -enough to know dat. De young folks' mind is on worldly goods and worldly -pleasures and dere ain't no good in none of it, just misery and woe, to -all it touches. And still dey don't seem to see, and don't want to see -and nobody got any sense, can't make' em see. God help dis generation is -all dat I can say. - -"I figure I lived dis long 'cause in de first place, I obey God, I never -did drink liquor or smoke in my whole life. I never wore glasses but -precious little and dat was when I did what little reading and writing I -knowed how to do; 'cause after my children went to school long enough to -read and write for me I just stopped doing dat little bit. Now dey's all -dead so I just makes marks, and lets it go at dat. I am a member of The -Kennerly Avenue Church of God in Christ." - - - - -Jane Baker - - - *Jane Baker,* - *Farmington, Missouri.* - *Interview with Chas. Baker.* - -"Ma muther wuz in a log cab'n east ob Farmington an when Price's -soldiers com thru frum Fredericktown, one ob de soldiers climb'd ober de -fence an robbed de hen house ob eggs an he put de eggs in his boots. Den -when he climb'd ober de fence to git back to de road he mashed de eggs -in his boots. De soldier tok off his boots an turned dem upside down to -git de broken eggs out an ma muther ran out ta de fence an hollored, -'Goody, goody.' - -"Ma muther say dat de worse side ob slabery wuz when de slabes war -'farmed out'. A master or slabe holder wud loan or sublet slabes ta a -man fur so many months at so much money. De master agreed ta supply so -many clothes. De man who rented de slabes wud treat dem jus lik animals. - -"Ma muther wuz sole twice. De furst time she wuz 14 years ole. She wuz -tak'n 26 miles to de new owner, an hit took all day. She tied all her -belongings up in a red bandanna handkerchief an went on horseback. One -stream wuz so high dat when dey cross'd hit dey got all wet. Den as soon -as she got to de new owner she wuz ship'd de follin' day. One ob ma -muther's owners wuz so good ta her dat she wuz treated as one ob de -family." - -REFERENCE:--The above information was received from Chas. Baker, who is -the brother of Dayse Baker, principal of the colored Douglass School in -Farmington, Missouri. Thus these facts are concerned with their mother, -Mrs. Jane Baker, an Ex-Slave, who died at the age of 103. - - - - -Mary A. Bell - - - *Interview with Mary A. Bell,* - *St. Louis, Missouri.* - *(Written by Grace E. White.)* - - _She Loves Army Men_ - -The subject of this sketch is Mary A. Bell, 85 years old, living in a -4-room frame cottage at 1321 Argus Street, St. Louis County, Missouri. - -Mary Bell has a very light complexion, light brown eyes, mixed gray -hair, very long and straight. She has fine features. She is quite bent, -and shows her years, but is cheerful. She is living in the same yard -with her daughter who is married and lives next door with her family, -Mrs. Virginia Miller and six children. Her story follows: - -"I was born in Missouri, May 1, 1852 and owned by an old maid named Miss -Kitty Diggs. I had two sisters and three brothers. One of my brothers -was killed in de Civil War, and one died here in St. Louis in 1919. His -name was Spot. My other brother, four years younger than I, died in -October, 1925 in Colorado Springs. - -"Slavery was a mighty hard life. Kitty Diggs hired me out to a -Presbyterian minister when I was seven years old, to take care of three -children. - -"I nursed in dat family one year. Den Miss Diggs hired me out to a baker -named Henry Tillman to nurse three children. I nursed there two years. -Neither family was nice to me. De preacher had a big farm. I was only -seven years old so dey put me on a pony at meal time to ride out to de -field and call de hands to dinner. After the meals were finished, I -helped in de kitchen, gathered the eggs, and kept plenty busy. My father -was owned by de Lewis family out in the country, but Miss Diggs owned my -mother and all her children. I never attended school until I came to St. -Louis. When Abraham Lincoln was assassinated I had never been to school. -Dat same year I attended school at Benton Barracks and went about six or -seven months with de soldiers. There was no Negro school in St. Louis at -dat time. The next school I attended was St. Paul Chapel, 11th and Green -Streets. I went dere about six months. De next place I went to school -was 18th and Warren. I went there about two years. My next school was -23rd and Morgan, now Delmar Boulevard, in a store building. I went dere -between two and three years. I was very apt and learned fast. My father -at de time I was going from school to school, was a nurse in Benton -Barracks and my mother taken in washing and ironing. I had to help her -in de home with de laundry. - -"I married at de age of twenty-two and was de mother of seven children, -but only have two now living, my daughter dat lives next door and in de -same yard with me, and a son in the Philippine Islands. I have eight -grandchildren and four great-grandchildren. - -"I so often think of de hard times my parents had in dere slave days, -more than I feel my own hard times, because my father was not allowed to -come to see my mother but two nights a week. Dat was Wednesday and -Saturday. So often he came home all bloody from beatings his old nigger -overseer would give him. My mother would take those bloody clothes off -of him, bathe de sore places and grease them good and wash and iron his -clothes, so he could go back clean. - -"But once he came home bloody after a beating he did not deserve and he -run away. He scared my mother most to death because he had run away, and -she done all in her power to persuade him to go back. He said he would -die first, so he hid three days and three nights, under houses and in -the woods, looking for a chance to cross the line but de patrollers were -so hot on his trail he couldn't make it. He could see de riders hunting -him, but dey didn't see him. After three days and three nights he was so -weak and hungry, he came out and gave himself up to a nigger trader dat -he knew, and begged de nigger trader to buy him from his owner, Mr. -Lewis, because Marse Lewis was so mean to him, and de nigger trader knew -how valuable he was to his owner. De nigger trader promised him he would -try to make a deal with his owner for him, because de nigger trader -wanted him. So when dey brought father back to his owner and asked to -buy him, Mr. Lewis said dere wasn't a plantation owner with money enough -to pay him for Spot. Dat was my father's name, so of course that put my -father back in de hands of Marse Lewis. Lewis owned a large tobacco -plantation and my father was de head man on dat plantation. He cured all -de tobacco, as it was brought in from the field, made all the twists and -plugs of tobacco. His owner's son taught him to read, and dat made his -owner so mad, because my father read de emancipation for freedom to de -other slaves, and it made dem so happy, dey could not work well, and dey -got so no one could manage dem, when dey found out dey were to be freed -in such a short time. - -"Father told his owner after he found out he wouldn't sell him, dat if -he whipped him again, he would run away again, and keep on running away -until he made de free state land. So de nigger trader begged my father -not to run away from Marse Lewis, because if he did Lewis would be a -ruined man, because he did not have another man who could manage de -workers as father did. So the owner knew freedom was about to be -declared and my father would have de privilege of leaving whether his -owner liked it or not. So Lewis knew my father knew it as well as he -did, so he sat down and talked with my father about the future and -promised my father if he would stay with him and ship his tobacco for -him and look after all of his business on his plantation after freedom -was declared, he would give him a nice house and lot for his family -right on his plantation. And he had such influence over de other slaves -he wanted him to convince de others dat it would be better to stay with -their former owner and work for him for their living dan take a chance -on strangers they did not know and who did not know dem. He pleaded so -hard with my father, dat father told him all right to get rid of him. -But Lewis had been so mean to father, dat down in father's heart he felt -Lewis did not have a spot of good in him. No place for a black man. - -"So father stayed just six months after dat promise and taken eleven of -de best slaves on de plantation, and went to Kansas City and all of dem -joined the U.S. Army. Dey enlisted de very night dey got to Kansas City -and de very next morning de Pattie owners were dere on de trail after -dem to take dem back home, but de officers said dey were now enlisted -U.S. Soldiers and not slaves and could not be touched. - -"In de county where I was raised de white people went to church in de -morning and de slaves went in de afternoon. I was converted at the age -of fourteen, and married in 1882. My husband died May 27, 1896 and I -have been a widow every since. I do get a pension now, I never started -buying dis little old 4-room frame dwelling until I was sixty-four years -old and paid for it in full in six years and six months. - -"I am a member of St. Peter's A.M.E. Church in North St. Louis. I told -you my father's name was Spot, but that was his nickname in slavery. His -full name was Spottwood Rice and my son's full name is William A. Bell. -He is enlisted in de army in de Philippine Islands. I love army men, my -father, brother, husband and son were all army men. I love a man who -will fight for his rights, and any person that wants to be something." - - - - -William Black - - - *Interview with William Black,* - *Hannibal, Missouri.* - - _He's Quit Having Birthdays_ - -William Black of 919 South Arch Street, Hannibal, Missouri, is one of -the few ex-slaves living in Marion County. He is now about eighty-five -years old, and has lived his entire life in Marion, Monroe, and Ralls -Counties. In chatting about his life and experiences he says: - -"My mother and father come from Virginia. I don't know how old I is, but -I have had one birthday and the rest is anniversaries. I think I is -about eighty-five. I was born in slavery and when I was eight years old -was bonded out to Sam Briggs of New London. Mr. Briggs was a good master -and I didn't have a whole lot to do. My job was to take his children to -school and go after dem of an evening. In the mean time I just piddled -around in de fields. - -"In de evening when de work was done we would sit 'round and play -marbles and sing songs. We made our songs up as we went along. Sometimes -dere would be a corn shuckin' and dat is when we had a good time, but we -always shucked a lot of dat corn. - -"I did not go to school any and today I do not even have de sense of -writing at all. Unless some one guides my hand I cannot make a mark. I -wish I wasn't so old now so I could go to school and learn how to read -and write. - -"I 'member one day when de master was gone, us darkies thought we would -have a party. I guess de master knowed we was going to have one, 'cause -dat night, when we was all having a good time, my sister said to me, -'Bill, over dere is old master Sam.' He had dressed up to look like us -and see what we was up to. Master Sam didn't do anything to us dat time -'cause he had too good a time hisself. - -"At the age of thirteen my sister was bonded out to some man who was -awful mean, she was a bad girl, too. After we were freed she told me all -about her old master. She said, 'One Christmas my master was drunk and I -went to wish him a merry Christmas and get some candy. He hit at me and -I ducked and run 'round de house so fast I burnt de grass 'round dat -house and I know dere ain't no grass growing dere yet.' - -"When we was freed our master didn't give us nothing, but some clothes -and five dollars. He told us we could stay if we wanted to, but we was -so glad to be free dat we all left him. He was a good man though. - -"Durin' de war we could not leave de master's house to go to de -neighbors without a pass. If we didn't have a pass de paddyrollers would -get us and kill us or take us away. - -"After de freedom come we could vote, but some of us never done it. To -dis day I ain't never voted. De government has been as good to us as dey -could. I get ten dollars a month and think I should have more, but I -know dey is giving us all dey can and some day dey will give us -ex-slaves more. - -"I am glad dat we have our churches and schools. We don't have no -business being with de good white people. Dey is cultured and we is not, -but some day we will be as good and dey will be glad to have us 'round -dem more. Just 'cause we is black is no sign that we ain't good niggers. - -"I don't like de way de younger generation is doin'. As my neighbors -say, 'the devil is gettin' dem and it won't be long 'fore he will come -and get dem all.' When I was young we didn't act like dey do now-a-days. -We didn't get drunk and stay dat way and kill each other. De good Lord -is going to do something to all of dem, mark my word. - -"I can't 'member some of the songs we sung, but when we was freed we -sang 'Master's Body is Molding in the Grave', and I know some of dem -is." - -William Black lives by himself in a house owned by his daughter. He is -unable to do any kind of manual labor and has not done any kind of work -for about five years. He is active in religious affairs and attends -church regularly. He is one of the few persons living in Marion County -who raises tobacco. His garden plot, five by ten feet, is close to his -house. - - - - -George Bollinger - - - *Interview with George Bollinger,* - *Cape Girardeau, Missouri.* - - _He Saw Many "Hants"_ - -George Bollinger is a typical, old-time Negro who lives in Cape -Girardeau. In his younger days he was big and powerful and even now at -the age of 84 he is above the average in build. He owns his home and his -is the last colored family to remain in this neighborhood which is -rapidly being built up with modern homes. - -George has little education, unlike his wife who is much younger and -uses fairly good English. He sits on his porch and thoroughly enjoys -talking of the long ago with those who appreciate listening to his -story. - -"Benton Hill?" he said. "Sure, it's hanted. I seen things and heard -things there lots of times. Good gosh amighty! One night we was driving -through dere and we heard something dat sound like a woman just a -screaming. Old man Ousbery was with me and he wanted to stop and see -what it was but I says, 'No you don't. Drive on. You don't know what dat -might be.' Another time we's driving by there, and dey was a great big -mule just standing cross de road and he just wouldn't move. I says, -'Just drive on and he'll get out of de way.' But he didn't. When we gets -to him, he just parts right in de middle and half stands on one side and -half on de other. We didn't look 'round. No, mo'--we just made dat hoss -go. - -"I don't know what makes dem hants round there--lessen it's de gold -what's buried dere. And you know de spirits always come back fer gold. -Sure dey's money buried dere. Didn't you all know dat? Lots of folks is -dug there, but dey ain't never found it. Why dey is holes 'round dere -where men's been digging for dat gold. - -"Dey was one man had a-what you call it? A 'vinin' rod. That points to -where things is hid. But he didn't find it neither. And then out by de -Maberry place, close to Gordonville--who-e-e--I's sure enough seen -things out dere lots of times. You know where dat clump of peach trees -is at de corner of de fence? Dey always seems to come from right there. -I worked out there for a long time. We'd get out to work early, -sometimes 'twasn't good and day. - -"One morning I's coming along there, on a hoss I was, and I met a -hossman. He looks funny to me and when he asks me something I says, 'Git -on. I ain't talking to you!' But he says, 'Wait, I wants to talk to -you!' As I says, he looks funny to me and I pulls out my pistol. I -always carries my gun, and I think if he makes a pass at me I'll git -him. But I goes on without looking back. Now just dat one man is all I -seen, but when I gets past, dey is lots of talking like dey is six or -eight men. But I didn't look back. - -"One morning I'd got out there real early, too early to go into de field -and I thinks I'll rest awhile under de tree. I had my eyes shut for a -while when something bothered me. When I opened up my eyes there was a -lot a strange hosses standing 'round me in a ring. I jumped up and -hollered, 'git out'. Dey turned and ran and dey run right off a steep -bank on the other side of de field." - -"Did you see them down there?" he was asked. - -"Cose I never, nobody else never neither, dey wasn't dere, dat's why," -he answered. - -"Lord, when I thinks of de way we used to work. Out in de field before -day and work till plumb dark. My boss would say, 'George take two men, -or maybe three men, and git dat field plowed, or dat woods patch -cleared'. And he knowed if he tell me, de work would be done. - -"And I worked at anything. One time I steamboated for eight years. But -what do dese young folks know 'bout work? Nuthin'! Look at dat grandson -of mine, just crossed de porch--why he's fourteen and he can't even use -a ax. Too young? Go on with you! - -"I tells you dese young folks just don't know how to work. Dey has too -much studying up here (pointing to his head and making motions like -wheels going round.) When I's his age I's working at anything I could -find. I worked on a farm and on a steamboat, I carried cross ties--just -anything where I could earn money. And I saved money, too. When we -bought dis house I had $2,400 saved up. And men was stronger in dem days -and had better health. - -"Dese young folks want too easy living. And dey ain't brung up to show -respect to old folks like we is. If I goes down de walk and a bunch -young folks is coming along, I knows I's got to step out of de -way--'cause dey won't give any. And if some little ones on roller skates -is coming down de sidewalk--you better git off or dey'll run right into -you. - -"I was tellin' you 'bout Miss Katie coming to see me, wasn't I? Well -just last week her boy come to see me. He's maybe 25 or 30 year old. -Somebody told him 'bout me and he come here and he sit right dar on de -porch fer a hour and talk with me. He was a fine young man, he was." - - *Interview with George Bollinger* - *[TR: by Mollie E. Smith].* - -NOTE: George Bollinger and his family live in a nice one-and-one-half -story house, which they own. They have always been industrious people -and their home is nicely kept. George is 84 years old and seems to enjoy -life. He was glad to talk over "old times", especially after he -recognized me, (The "Me" being Mollie E. Smith) and recalled that he -used to work in my grandfather's Tan Yard. George Bollinger is living at -320 N. Spriggs St., Cape Girardeau, Missouri. - -"We lived out on de edge o' Bollinger County. 'Ole Massa's' name was -'Dal Bollinger'. 'Ole Missus,' we always called, "Aunt Polly". Den day -wuz young 'Massa Dave,' and young 'Missie Katie'. - -"My Pappy's name wuz 'Bollinger' 'en my mammy wuz 'Temple'. My pappy wuz -a smart man. He cud read and write. I don't know whar he learned it. An' -he had de power, my daddy did. He cud break a 'Hoodoo' spell, an' he cud -tell things dat happened wen he diden see it--If one a' de folks went to -town he cud tell 'em jes everything dey don dere. - -"Dey wuz 'bout 20, mebby 25, slaves on de place, 'en we all lived in a -big, old log house. My mammy wus a good cook 'en she cud spin en weave. -She made all de clothes we wore. Us chilluns never wore no pants--jes -sumpin like a long shirt made o' homespun. We didden know nuthin' 'bout -learnin'. Dey wuz a church, but we didden go much, 'en we never had no -kind 'er gatherin's. Dey wouldn' let de cullered folks congregate--no, -shu, why, even de man over at de store wouldn't let mo' dan two cullud -folks come in at a time. - -"I didden even know what money wuz. Massa' had a chest 'bout three feet -long--up in a little attic. It wuz jes' full o' gold 'en silver -money--no 'greenbacks'. It wuz covered over wif rugs, 'en I never know'd -what wuz in dere--we used to go up der to play sumtimes on rainy days, -an Aunt Polly'd holler, 'Ef you don' cum down fum dere de ghosts 'ul git -ye'. I never seed inside de chest 'till dey bury it--dat wuz in -war-time. Dey put a big hand spike under it 'en de men carry it down by -de sugar grove de udder side o' de graveyard. I cud go, right now 'en -show you de very spot dey bury it. De bes' times we-ens had wuz going -fishing, an' man! did we like to fish. Allus we had Saturday atternoon -off, 'lessen it wer wheat harvest 'er sumthin' special like. 'En -Sunday's we allus fished all day long. - -"One time day wuz two hundred sojers cum to our place--dey wuz -Southerners, an' dey wuz nearly starved. Massa tole 'em _dey_ cud kill -dat big steer. Dey shoots him 'en 'fore he drops dey wuz on him; -skinnin' him. By dat time udders had a fire built 'en de men pull out -dey knives 'en dey cut off hunks; dey puts 'em on a stick 'en hol's 'em -ovar de fire a few minutes--didden give 'em time to cook thru fore dey -et it. Dat ole steer didden last long. 'En 'Massa' had ten cribs 'er -corn. He tole' em to ---- dey selves. 'Bout dat time a dispatch came, -dat de "Yankees" wuz commin'. Dey went up to meet 'em, 'an dey had a -battle over at Patton. Long 'bout midnight sum of 'em came back, -wounded. Aunt Polly helped 'em, but she begged 'em not to stay dere, or -de "Yankees" cum in, burn de house down. - -"Aunt Polly 'en mammy allus know'd whut to do when a body wuz ailin'. -Dey allus had a bag o' yarbs hangin' under de porch. When de sojers wuz -commin' we allus hid de hosses. Massa' had lots ob 'em, 'en Missie ---- -had de pudttiest black mare. It's name wuz 'Kate'. Des one time de -hosses musta skered 'er sumpin--de sojers foun' 'em, an' here dey com -ridin' up past de house wid every on of our hosses. - -"A sojer wuz ridin' 'Black Kate'. Wen 'Missie Katie' see dat--she -holler, and she ran an' grab hol' de bridles, on han' on each side 'er -his haid. De sojer put spurs to de mare, but she hung on jes a cryin'. I -kin jes see her now; de mare a rarin' and 'Missie ---- hangin on -a-cryin'. She hung on till dey reach de creek. Den she lose her grip, -but she sho' did cry. - -"One night we had a big corn shuckin'. We shucked 'till way late in de -nite: den sum de white men stay all nite. Day wuz a pile 'er shucks -higher'en dat door. Nex' mornin' a bunch o' "Yankees" cum by. As dey wuz -comin' thru' de yard, dey see one man runnin' to hide behin' de barn. -Dey say; "Halt", but de man keep runnin'; so dey fire--de bullet thru' -his had and he stop. Den dey say: "If day's one man, dey's more a -hiddin.' Dey looks roun', den de haid man say: 'Men ride thru' dat pile -'er shucks 'en ---- in dey hair. Den de sojers asks 'em things 'en iff'n -de answers didden seem good; dey hit 'em over de haid wid dere guns. I -wuz standin' right here, an' I saw 'Ole Massa' git hit on de haid once, -den anudder time: an' he fell. I sho' thot he wuz daid, but warn't. Aunt -Polly fix him up atter de sojers wuz gone, but de bushwackers got him. - -"Dey must a heerd about de chest o' money he had buried. Dey try to make -him tell; but he wouldn't. Den dey put 'er rope 'roun' his neck an' -pulls him up. Den dey lets him down: but he wouldn' tell no how--so dey -finished him. - -"Yes, de' nigger buyers ust'a cum roun' our place. It was sight to see! -Dere 'ud be mebbe five 'or six men a'ridin' fine hosses an a-drivin' a -whole flock 'er slaves along de rode; jes' like stock, all chained -togedder. - -"On time dere wuz Pete Smith, 'Ole Tom Johnson, an' Fred an' Sam -Daughery; all niggar buyers--dey wuz at our place an' dey wud all sit -dar, an' us slaves had to stan' up in front o' em, an' dey'd bid on us. -I 'members I wuz full chested an' dey laid a stick across my chest to -see how straight I cud stan'. 'Ole Pete' Smith wuz gonna' buy me; but my -young folks begged 'Massa' not to sell me, 'cause we'd all played -togedder--so he didden' sell me. - -"But dey wuz gonna buy my 'pappy' an take him way off, but, my 'pappy' -was smart. He had made baskets at night an' sold 'em when he cud, 'en -saved de money--dat night he goes to de fireplace an' lifts up a stone; -an' out o' de hole he pulls out a bag a' money an' he runs away. I ain't -never seed my 'pappy' since. Las' I hurd a' him he was in 'Indiana.' -When Mista Lincoln made his Proclamation (dat wuz 'fore de war wuz -over), young Massa' Dave set us free. He gave us a yoke of oxen an' a -wagon full o' everythin' we needed. Der wuz a feather bed 'en quilts an' -meat an' purvisions--an' he sent us into de Cape--an we been livin' -roun' here ever since. - -"All my white folks is daid 'cept 'Missie Kattie', an' do you know, some -year back: she cum to see me. Yessir; her car druv up, right der, to de -sidewalk, an' she made all her grandchillun get out an' shake han's wif -me. She sho' wuz a fine woman! - -"'Ku Klux?' Yes, dey wuz aroun' sometime', but dey didden bother ef you -mind your own bizness. But de darkies better not congregate; 'caus' day -shore take 'em out an' flag' em. If dey ketch you at a neighbor's house -atter dar, you shore better have a pass fum yo' 'Massa.'" - - - - -Annie Bridges - - - *Interview with Annie Bridges,* - *age 81, Farmington, Missouri.* - -"I's born on March 6, 1855; on Wolf Crick, in St. Francois County. My -muthuh, Clausa McFarland Bridges, wuz borned on Wolf Crick too, but mah -fauthar, Jerry Bridges, kum from Californie. William McFarland wuz our -boss, and he had a lotta' slaves. Us liv'd in a log cabin, with two -rooms. Yep, there wuz a floor an' we had a bed, but hit hadn't no -mattress; jus' roped an' cord'd. Holes wuz in de side ob de bed, soo's -de ropes cud go thru'. We all wore 'jeans' an' wrap'd an' ole sack -'round our legs; most time we went barefoot. We al's used catnip tea ta -cure mos' ever'thing. Our boss wuz purty good ta us, but we larned dat -ole M.P. Cayce, he wuz a slaveholder, wud beat 'Hunter' Cayce, an' ole -'nigger' man, every Monday mornin' 'til his back bled. Den he tuk salt -an' put hit in de gashes. My brudders war, Alvin, Jerry, Rubin, Louis, -an' Nat. Ma sista' Mary, she went to Rolla an' married. Me an' ma -bruvver Jerry air de only ones a-livin'. - -"I married Overdie Southerland wen I wuz 26 years ole. Abe Koen married -us, but we are not a-livin' togeth'r now. I never had no childr'n by -him. Ma furst job wuz with Dr. Jim Braham fur one year, an' nine months. -I got $2.50 a week. I did all de housework thar. - -"After de war wuz over my muthuh went to Pilot Knob to wurk in a hotel. -Me, an' my muthuh went hup on Pilot Knob, berry huntin', one day, an' we -seen de leg ob a man an' his ankle bone wuz stickin' in his shoe. Thar -warn't any flesh on de leg. Hit wuz near de ole Fort (Fort Davidson)." -(Note: This must have been a portion of a soldier, from the Battle of -Pilot Knob!) - -"Ma muthuh tole' me dat dey used ta sell de little childr'n away fum de -breasts ob der muthuh's. Ma muthuh plow'd in de fiel' an' wud leave her -baby layin' at one end ob de fiel', while she plow'd clear ta de odder -end an' kum back. She know'd a man who had a child by one ob his slaves -an' den sole de chil' as a slave. Wasn't dat turrible, sellin' his own -son? - -"De young folks calls us 'ole fogies', but we knew how ta act, an' lots -ob de young-un's don't know dat now. When I wuz growin' hup we had -company an' would hav' ta wait 'til de ol' folks wuz thru' eatin' 'fore -we cud eat. Sum' ob my muthuh's friens' kum one day with their -'redique'; ([TR: reticule] bags which held knitting and sewing, and were -tied with a draw-string, at the top.) "They war eatin' an' I wuz sittin' -on a ladder dat led hup to de attic. I come down de ladder and wuz -sittin' near de bottom an' dese grown people's was eatin', den dey lean -back ta rest a-while, den eat a little more, an' res' a-while. I had ta -sit dare an' watch dem. After a-while I says: 'My time now'. Well, jus' -for dat, my muthuh give me one ob de worse whippin's dat I ever had. -Sometimes I had ta stan' in de closet, or stan' on de floor an' hol' one -foot, when I wuz punished. - -"Ma muthuh's stepfather wuz poisen'd in whiskey. His name wuz 'Charlie -Gipson'. Onc't a man held hup a bottle an' said: 'I'm drinkin' de poisen -off'. But he wuz puttin' de pois'n in. After dat, Charlie Gipson drank -de whiskey out ob de bottle an' in nine months he wuz daid. - -"Simon cud call de snakes an' dey wud kum frum all directions. He wud -tak' de skins ob dese snakes an' put dem on de roof ob de shed, an' den -when dey wuz dry, he wud mak' powder out ob dem an' 'hoodoo' people. - -"We all went tuh a pahty one time an' Scot Cole's sistah et a big apple -thar. After a little while, she died. So's ma muthuh tole us to not eat -anythin' dat people give you; hit might be poisen'd. - -"I'se been tole dat if people dies satisfied, dey don' kum bak, but if -dey don' dies satisfied, dey kum back. But I never seed nothin'." - -(One of the religious songs used to be): - - "Jesus in his chariot rides - He had three white horses side by side - When Jesus reached the mountain top - He spoke one word, the chariot stop - He's the lily of the valley, O my Lord." - -(Following, is a 'Love Song' she sang; which she learned as a girl when -attending play-parties): - - "I'm wandering down to Graybrook Town, - Where the drums and fifes are beating - The Americans have gained the day - And the British are retreating. - - My pretty little pink, - I used to think that you and I would marry, - But since you told me so many faults - I care nothing about you. - - I'll take my knapsack on my back - My rifle on my shoulder - I'll open up a ring and choose a couple in - To relieve the broken hearted." - -(Following is a song she learned as a child): - - "I'll tune up my fiddle - I'll rosin my bow - I'll make myself welcome - Wherever I go - - Rye whiskey, rye whiskey, - Ain't no friend of mine, - He killed my old daddy - And he injured my mind." - -(Following is a song she learned as a child): - - "Rain, rain, rain all around - Ain't goin' rain no more - And what did the blackbird say to the crow? - You bring rain, and I'll bring snow - - Rain, rain, rain all around - Ain't goin' a-rain no more - Old Hawk and buzzard went to roost - The hawk came back with a loosened tooth. - - Rain, rain, rain all around - Ain't goin' a-rain no more - I had an old hat and it had a crown, - Look like a duck's nest sittin' on the ground. - - Rain, rain, rain all around, - Ain't goin' a-rain no more." - -(Following is a speech she gave as a small child) [HR: Not ex-slave]: - - "I love the cheerful summertime, - With all the birds and flowers. - I love the gentle flowing streams, - I love the evening breeze, - I love to go to school. - - To read, write and spell - I love my teacher's smile again - And get my lessons well." - -(Following is a speech given as a child) [HR: not ex-slave--white -version]: - - "Hear the children gayly shout - Half past four, school is out - Merry, merry, playful girls and boys - Thinking of games and toys - Slates, sleds, dolls and books - Oh how happy each one looks - 'Now for snowballs', Harry cried - And to hit his sister tried - Sister Flora full of fun - With her little hand making one - At her brother Harry threw - Swift it flew and hit his nose - 'Have I hurt you brother dear?' - Asked his sister running near - 'No indeed', said he - 'This is only sport for me.'" - -(Following is a familiar prayer when she was a child) [HR: not -ex-slave]: - - "Savior, tender shepherd hear me - Bless the little lambs tonight - Through the darkness be they nearest - Watch my sleep 'til morning light - Bless the friends I love so well - Take me when I die to heaven - Happy there with thee to dwell." - -(Following is a very familiar song:) - - "'Dear mother,' said a little fish - 'Pray, is this naughty fly - I am very hungry and I wish - You would let me go and try.' - - 'Sweet innocence', the mother cried, - And started from her nook, - 'The hurried fly is but to hide - The sharpness of the hook'. - - So he thought he'd venture out - To see if it was true - Around about the hook he played - With many a long look. - - 'Dear me', to himself he said - 'I'm sure it's not a hook' - So as he fainter, fainter grew - With hallowed voice, he cried, - 'If I had minded you - I would not then have died'." - -_Following are some old riddles, they may be of no value._ - - Riddle--'I rode over the bridge, and yet I walked.' - Answer--'Yet I' was the name of the dog with me. - - Riddle--'Big at the bottom - Little at the top, - Something in the middle - Goes flippity flop.' - Answer--Churn. - - Riddle--'Way down yonder in the meadow is a little red heifer. - Give'r her some hay she will eat it. - Give'r her some water she will die.' - Answer--Fire. - - Riddle--'I went over Hefil Steeple - Then I met a heap of people - Some were k-nick - Some were k-nack - Some were the color of brown tobacco - They were neither men, women, nor children.' - Answer--Bees. - -(Note:--Annie Bridges is quite a character. When giving her speeches and -singing her songs she dramatizes them while walking across the room. She -is hard of hearing and can be heard for quite a distance. She receives -an old-age pension. She is considered by many, a sort of nuisance around -town, since she is always begging for something. Some are afraid of -her.) - -(Following is a song of Abraham Lincoln she sang): - - "If it hadn't been for Uncle Abraham - What would we a'done? - - Been down in de cotton field, - Pickin' in de sun." - - - - -Betty Brown - - - *Interview with Betty Brown,* - *Cape Girardeau Co., Missouri.* - -"In de ole days we live in Arkansas, in Greene County. My mammy wuz -Mary-Ann Millan, an' we belong to 'Massa' John Nutt, an' 'Miss' Nancy.' - -"Our white folks live in a big double house, wid a open hall between. It -wuz built of hewed logs an' had a big po'ch on de wes' side. De house -stood on Cash rivuh, at the crossroads of three roads; one road go tuh -Pocahontas, one tuh Jonesburg, an' one tuh Pie-Hatten (Powhatan). - -"Now whut fo' you wanna' know all dem things? Air ye tryin' to raise de -daid? Some o' 'em, ah don' wanna see no mo', an' some o' 'em ah wants to -stay whar dey is. Pore mammy! Ah shore had one sweet muthuh, an' ah -wants huh to stay at rest. - -"De wuz jus' us one family o' cullud folks on de place. You see, 'Miss' -Nancy' hired us fum her fathuh, 'Ole Massa Hanover. Jes' mah mammy an' -huh chillern. She had five, 'fore de war wuz ovuh. Our daddy; he wuz an -Irishman, name Millan, an' he had de bigges' still in all Arkansas. -Yes'm, he had a white wife, an' five chillern at home, but mah mammy say -he like huh an' she like him. You say ah don' look half white? Maybe I's -fadin'. - -"We live in a little ole log house, it wuz so low a big feller had to -stoop to git in. Our folks wus mighty good tuh us, an' we stayed dar wid -'um after we's freed. - -"Ah don' rightly know how old ah is, but de priest writ' it all down fo' -me, when ah's gittin' mah pension. Sho' ah's a Catholic. Is they -anything else? Fo' fifteen year ah tended de Catholic church, swept an' -dusted, an' cleaned, but ah's too ole fo' dat now, an' ah's po'ly in mah -back, cain't git 'round like dat no mo'. - -"We lived de ole-time way of livin', mammy done de cookin an' we had -plenty good things to eat. Mammy made all de clothes, spinnin', an' -weavin' an' sewin'. Ah larned to spin when ah wuz too little tuh reach -de broach, an' ah could hep her thread de loom. An' mammy wuz a -shoe-maker, she'd make moccasins for all o' us. - -"Two o' the Nutt boys made shoes too, heavy, big ones dey wuz; but dey -kep' our feet warm in winter. - -"An' dey had a tan hand. Ah uste wade barefooted in dem pits an' work -wid dem hides, but ah wouldn't wanna do it now. - -"Dey wuz a grove o' post-oak timber, 'bout five, or six acres, all -cleaned out; an' in der, dey raised bear cubs. Why, dey raised 'em tuh -eat. Lawd! dat's good eatin'. Jes' gimme s' bear meat an' den let me go -tuh sleep! M-m-m! - -"They wuz fruit trees planted all 'long de road, planted jes' like -fence-posts for 'bout a mile, an' all de fruit dat fell in de road de -hogs got, we'ens could go get any of it, any time, an' travelers, 'long -de road, was a'way's welcome ter hep dey selves. 'Massa' nevuh planted -no shade trees. Iffen trees wuz planted dey had to be fruit trees. -'Ceptin' de holly bush, he like dat 'cause it's green in winter. - -"They wuz some flowers 'round de house. Snow-balls, batchelor-buttons, -old-maids; jes' such old-fashion ones, no roses, n'er nuthin' like dat. - -"Massa' raise some cotton, but 'Ole Massa' Hanover had sech a big cotton -patch yuh couldn't look across it. An' dey all kind'a fowls yu'd find -any where's, guinie's, ducks, n' geese, n' turkey's, n' peafowl's, an' -lotsa chicken's a' 'cose. - -"My mamma could hunt good ez any man. Us'tuh be a coup'la pedluh men -come 'round wuth they packs. My mammy'd a'ways have a pile o' hides tuh -trade with 'em fer calico prints n' trinkets, n' sech-like, but mos'ly -fo' calico prints. She'd have coon hides n' deer n' mink, n' beavers, -lawd! I kin still hear dem beavers splashin' 'round dat dam. Dis time -'er marning' dey's a'way's shore busy. An' folks in cities goes tuh -pawks now to see sech animal. Hun! Ah seen all 'em things ah wants tuh -see. - -"Good Lawd! We didden' know whut church wuz n'er school nuther, an' the -whites nevuh nuther. Dey wuz a couple o' men us'ta come by, an' hole a -camp meetin'. Dey'd build a big arbuh, with branches o' leaves over de -top, an' build benches; dey'd come aftuh crops wuz laid by, an' preach -'til cotton wuz openin'. Ah never know'd whut sect dey belong to, n'er -whar dey go, n'er what dey come fum 'nuther. - -"Yes'm, we seed sojers, an' we seed lot's o' 'em. Dah wuz de -'blue-coats'; some o' de folks call'em Bluebelly Yank's, dey had fine -blue coats an' the brass buttons all ovuh the front o' 'em shinin' like -stahs. Dey call us little cullud folks', 'cubs', an' dey burn down -Jonesburg. Yes'm we seed Jonesburg down in ashes. Dem 'blue-coats' wuz -devils, but de 'gray-coats' wuz wusser. Dey turn over our bee-gums an' -dey kill our steers, an' carry off our provisions, an' whut dey couldn't -carry off dey ruint. Den dey go roun' killin' all de cullud men an' -bayanettin' de chillern. - -"No, dat wuzzen' de 'gray-coats' doin' de killin', dat wuz 'bushwackers' -an' 'Ku Klux'ers', dey sho' wuz bad. Dey shot my little sistuh in back -of her neck an' day shot me in de laig. See dat scar, dat whar dey shoot -me. An' dey kill my gran'fathuh; dey sho' did. - -"Gran'fathuh's name wuz 'Jim Hanover'. 'Ole Massa Hanover', he wuz a -lawyer, an' he educated mah gran'fathuh tuh be a overseuh. He lived wid' -'Massa Hanover' for long time. He wuz a good man, mah gran'fathuh wuz, -an' he wuz smart too, an' when de war surrenduh, dey make him Mayor of -Pie-hatten, an' he made a good mayor too; people all said so, an' dey -wuz gonna' 'lect him fo' foe mo' year, an' de 'Ku Klux'ers said dey -wuzzen' gonna have no 'nigguh' mayor. So dey tuk him out an' killed him. -Dey wuz awful times. Now you know dat wuzzen right an' who's de curse -fo' such things gonna rest on? - -"Ah disemembuh jes' when we come tuh Missouri, but it wuz when -'Hayes'[1], an' 'Wheeler' wuz 'lected President. Down in Arkansas dey -say dey gonna make us all vote Democrat. My step-daddy say he die 'fore -he vote Democrat. - - [1] HR: Rutherford B. Hayes, 19th president, 1877-81. - -"Der wuz two white men say dey'd get us to Cape Girda. Dey had two -covered wagons, an' dey wuz forty-eight o' us cullud folks. We put our -belongin's in de wagon. Dey wuz a coupl'a ole gramma's rode in de -wagons, an' some little feller's, but de rest of us walk ever step o' de -way. An' it rained on us ever' step o' de way. At night we'd lay down to -sleep unduh de wagon so tired we nevuh even know'd it wuz rainin'. - -"When we got to St. Francis Rivuh dey ferried us across on a big flat, -an' had a rope tied across da rivuh to pull us ovuh. But we had to ford -White Watuh, an Castuh rivuh, an' Niggerwool swamp. When we'd come to de -rivuh de white man 'ud say: 'Ack like sojers'. De hosses 'ud swim -across, pullin' de wagon, some o' de big folks 'ud grab hole' de feed -box an' de rest 'ud each grab roun' de one in front an' dat way we fords -de rivuhs, wid strings a' folk hangin' out behin' de wagons. - -"Hoo-doos', ghosts's er signs? No mam! Ah don' believe in none of dat. -Now you is tryin' to call up de devil. But wait! Ah kin tell you one -sign dat ah knows is true. If de dog jes' lays outside de do' sleepin' -an' has his haid inside de do', you's gonna git a new member in de -family befo' de year is out. An' jes' de othuh way roun'. Ef de dog lays -sleepin' inside de do' an' has his haid hangin' out, you's gwine a lose -a 'membuh o' yuh family fo' de end a' de yeah. - -"Dey wuz sumpin' funny happen when ma little girl die sometime ago. She -wuz a sweet chile. She wuz stayin' wuth Miss' English on Henderson Ave., -an' she lost her mind. Ah don' know whut's a matter wuth her, but ah -brung her home to take keer o' her, but she don' get no bettuh. One day -she's standin', lookin' out de front do' an' she holler: 'Heah dey's -comin' aftuh me'. Ah don' know what she see, but she run to de back room -an' stan' right dere. - -"Her daddy an' me look at huh an' dar wuz a big ball o' fire hangin' -ovuh her haid. We picked huh up, an' put huh to bed. We sent fo' de -doctah an' fo' de priest, an' we got de nurse 'at we had when she fust -took sick. I nevuh knowed whut wuz de mattuh with her. De priest -wouldn't tell me, de doctuh wouldn't tell me, an' ah guess de nurse was -ez green about it ez ah wuz. Some folks tell me she wuz conjured. Mah -po' little girl". - - - - -Steve Brown - - - *Interview with Steve Brown,* - *Cape Girardeau, Mo.* - -"Mista Joe Medley and his wife, Miss Addie was my young master and -mistress. Old master John Medley done brung us from Kentucky when he -moved from there to Cape County. I was jest a baby den. I never knowed -nothin' 'bout my daddy. - -"De white folks had a big log-house. It was an awful big house, with a -big porch on de north side. They was some cedar trees in de yard and -some fruit trees. Dey was a big log barn and split rail fences all -around. Us little fellers had to help carry in de wood, and help do de -feeding. Dey had lots of hosses, cows, and pigs. - -"Dey was a separate house for de spinning and weaving. Cose all our -clothes and shoes too, was made on de place. Massa was mighty good to -his cullud folks. He never 'lowed none of 'em to be sold and I don't -recollect ever seeing anyone getting whupped. No, we never had no -gatherin's nor schools, nor nuthing of the kind. - -"Massa had a fine big carriage and one Sunday he'd take all de white -folks to church and de next Sunday, he put de cullud folks in de -carriage and send dem to church. Dat's how come us to be Catholics. We -come all de way to Cape, to St. Vincent's Church, down by de river. We -lived away off dere in de backwoods and we didn't see much of -sojers--jes' a few scattered ones come by after de skirmish at de Cape. -When de war ended, we moved to de Cape and work on de college farm. - -"When I's little de mostest fun we had was going fishing--we spent most -of our time down dar by de branch and I guess de big folks was glad to -have us out of de way." - -Steve Brown lives at the end of Elm Street, Cape Girardeau. - - - - -Richard Bruner - - - *Interview with Richard Bruner,* - *Negro preacher, Nelson, Missouri.* - -The subject of this sketch, Richard Bruner, is one of the oldest negroes -in Saline County. He claims to be ninety-seven years old and lives in -the little town of Nelson. - -His humble dwelling, a gray and weathered frame building of about four -rooms and two porches, sets in a square of yard thick with blue grass, -old fashioned flowers like holly hocks, flowering pinks and marigolds -making bright spots of color. Heavily laden fruit trees, apples, -peaches, plums and pears shade every part of the plot. A splendid walnut -tree towers over the smaller fruit trees, the house and the porch, while -at the side of the house a garden spot contains a fine variety of -vegetables. - -As the writer approached, the old man was seated on a cot on the little -porch. The wall back of him was hung with all kinds of tools, a saw, a -hammer, bits of wire, a piece of rope, part of a bridle, and a wing, -apparently from a big gray goose. His long curling, gray hair is neatly -parted and brushed and he wears a mustache and short beard or chin -whiskers, an unusual thing among negroes in this part of the country. -His skin is a light brown color and his eyes bright with his second -eyesight which enables him to look on the world without glasses. - -Back of the house and down the hill, is a well equipped slaughter house, -where for many years this old man has taken care of the butchering of -the meat for his white friends and neighbors. He is too old now to take -charge of this work, but the house and equipment is still in good -repair. - -This aged Negro has been for many years a highly respected preacher of -the gospel. His own account of his life and adventures follows: - -"Yes'm I remembers before de war, I remember being a water-boy to de -field hands before I were big enough to work in de fields. I hoed -tobaccer when I was about so high, (measuring with his hands about three -and one half feet from the floor). - -"Yes'm dey thrashed me once, made me hug a tree and whip me, I had a -terrible temper, I'm part Choctaw Indian. We went to de white folks -church on Sundays, when we went to camp meeting we all went to de -mourners' bench together. De mourners' bench stretch clear across de -front of de Arbor; de whites and de blacks, we all just fell down at de -mourners' bench and got religion at de same place. Ole Marsa let us -joine whichever church we wanted, either de Methodist or Baptist. - -"No, I never went to no school, de colonel's daughter larnt me to write -my name, that was after de wah. No'm, dey didn't care if we had dances -and frolics. We had de dances down at de quarters and de white folks -would come down and look on. Whenever us niggas on one plantation got -obstreperous, white folks hawns dey blowed. When de neighbors heard dat -hawn here dey come to help make dat obstreperous nigga behave. Dey -blowed de hawn to call de neighbors if anybody died or were sick." - -In response to the question as to where he joined the Federal Army, -Bruner replied: - -"Well you see I was a runaway nigga; I run away when I was about grown -and went to Kansas. When de war broke out I joined de 18th United States -Colored Infantry, under Capt. Lucas. I fit three years in de army. My -old Marsa's two boys just older than me fit for de south. Dey was mighty -good boys, I liked dem fine." - - - - -Robert Bryant - - - *Interview with Robert Bryant,* - *Herculaneum, Missouri.* - - _Slave Married 4 Times_ - -"I was born out by Caledonia and is 75 years old. My mother came from -another family. My old master bought her from another man. She died when -I was about eight years old and my father died about forty years ago. -His name was George Bryant but he went by de name of Brock. I was livin' -in Pilot Knob when Price's raid come through. De government gave de old -man a team to make it to St. Louis. Me and my mother and my brother who -was deaf and dumb went with dem but de soldiers captured us and de old -man jumped off de mule and high tailed it to de woods. My mother got out -of de wagon and took my brother to de woods too. De soldier rid up to de -wagon and said, 'Little boy, you don't need to be afraid, I'm after your -father.' - -"I started to get out of de wagon and fell down under de mule and dere I -was on de ground. I got up and made for de woods and got in a hole where -de hogs was a-wallerin'. I had on a dress and was standin' in de mud up -to my knees. I got lost out in de woods for three days. I just laid -around and slept behind a log at night and durin' de day I played in dat -mud-hole. If I see'd somebody comin' in de woods I would go and hide. - -"A colored lady found me after three days and called me and took me -along. I stayed with her three weeks before my mother found me. I like -to eat up everything dey had when I first got something to eat after -bein' in de woods so long. We went from one place to another and along -about two o'clock in de night you would hear something hit de house like -hail. Den we had to come out of dere and hit for de woods. We would go -to another house 'bout eight or nine miles away and I'll be switched if -dere would not be hail fallin' on dat house about two o'clock in de -mornin'. It was them bushwhackers again. We kept runnin' for about three -weeks. We would go to peoples' houses for food and some of dem would -give us enough food to eat for two or three days. - -"I'll show you now how my mother happened to find me. One night we was -in a old house and we didn't dare talk loud 'cause we was afraid de -soldiers would hear us. We was afraid to light a light. All at once my -mother who was in one side of de room said: 'I wish I could find my -little boy.' Den de lady I was with said: 'I found a little boy playin' -in de hole where de hogs wallowed. Come over here and see if dis is your -boy.' So my mother come over and said: 'I can't see him but I sure can -tell by puttin' my hand on his head.' So she put her hand on my head and -said: 'Yes, dat's sure 'nough my boy.' - -"But I wouldn't go with her. I wouldn't leave dat other woman. About 2 -o'clock dat night de hail began to hit de house and we had to git out. -So I went with de other woman and it was about two or three days before -I would go with my mother. Two or three days later we all met again and -my mother said: 'Don't you know your mother.' I knowed it was my mother -'cause my brother what was deaf and dumb was with her. Den I went on -with her. I would talk to my brother with signs. - -"Den we went to a little place away, away from Pilot Knob. Den my mother -was free and she said, 'Robert, we is all free.' I was too young to know -anything 'bout it. After we was free we put in a little stuff in de -ground. We had to go to de woods to get some brush and make a brush -fence around de garden to keep de cattle out. We got permission from a -man dat owned a farm to build our own log house. It took two or three -days to build a one room house. We made up some mud with water and made -it stiff enough to stick to de chinckin'. Den we cut a big hole in one -end of de building and got some flat rocks and made a fireplace. We put -mud on de inside and outside of de chimney. Sometimes de chimney would -catch on fire and we had to run to de branch to get water and put it -out. Sometimes it would catch on fire twice or three times in one night. - -"We took old gunny sacks and put leaves in dem to make a bed and we -slept on de floor and had a old spread and de white folks gave us some -old quilts. To make a fire we got some spunk out of a log and then took -two flint rocks and to-reckly it would make a spark and catch that -spunk. We banked de fire at night. - -"We never had no doctor. My mother would go out in de woods and get -herbs and if I had de stomach ache we would put a little bit of -turpentine on a piece of sugar. If I had de headache we would put a -piece of brown paper and vinegar or horse radish leaves on de head. In -two or three hours us kids would be out playin' and kickin' up our -heels. We would go out and get some goose grass and make a little bit of -tea and pour it down for de stomach ache. We would get dis black root -for constipation. We used a turnip and scraped it and would bind de foot -when it was frost bit. - -"I'se been married four times and had children by two wifes, had eight -children altogether and all are girls but two. Ain't but one living and -dat is Ed McFadden what's livin' in Fredericktown, Mo. He works for -Deguire at de lumber mill and has been workin' dere for about 30 years. -Most of my children died young, but three girls lived to get married. -I'se married three times by a preacher and once by de squire. - -"I steamboated six years on de Mississippi between St. Paul and New -Orleans. I got $1 a day and board, and we sure would pack dem sacks and -sing dem songs. De old mate would holler at us: 'Give me a song boys'. -And den we would start out. It 'peared like de work went ahead easier -when we was singin'. It would take us four weeks to make de rounds -before we got back to St. Louis. We hauled potatoes, sheep, wheat, corn, -cattle, horses, and cotton. There was 45 of us altogether. I never got -hit but one time on de boat. De mate with knucks on hit at another -feller for 'cause he was loafin' and hit me and knocked me and my load -in de river. I couldn't swim but dey fished me back in de boat and -rolled me over and over to run dat water out of me. I run on de 'Bald -Eagle' and de 'Spread Eagle'. My mamma got after me to quit and when I -got hit she got uneasy about me, but I would hear dat whistle blowin' my -feet'd begin to itch and I could not help but go down to de old boat -again. De old mate had my name 'doubled up'. It was Bob Rob. - -"Den I went to wheelin' iron ore at Sulphur Springs. All day long I -worked with 16 men loading barges with wheel barrows. Every time you -took a load it had 800 pounds, and I'se telling you all, dat's some -iron. This iron ore came from dat big hill down in Pilot Knob. We had -straps over our shoulders and dey saved our hands and arms. It took -about a day and a half to load a barge and we got paid by de ton. I did -dat for about a year. - -"I give my wife all my money and all de time she was givin' it away to -another man. So dat was when I left her flat and went down to -Charleston, Cairo, and Kentucky and stayed three years. I was workin' in -de tobacco for three years. Dere was too much stoopin' in dat and I -decided to come back to St. Louis. We only got $12 a month in de tobacco -fields and worked from 4 o'clock in de morning to 8 or 9 o'clock in de -night time. Dere was 9 or 10 in de tobacco field. - -"Den I worked in de iron foundry in a St. Louis furnace. I carried iron -and hustled in de casting hole. Dey paid pretty good and we got $1.50 to -$1.75 a day. I worked up dere two years and den come to Sulphur Springs -and went on de farm and got $26 a month. I got to be a trusty and dey -put it in my hands. I worked here five years for old Mike Green. I was -single den. I went down on John Coffman's farm in Ste. Genevieve County -to work for him. Worked on his farm for 'bout 15 years and got $26 a -month and board. He had a gang of 'em working for him. He had rows of -cabins 'most a mile long. Dat was where I got married a second time. - -"After I left dere I went down below Fredericktown and went on a farm -again and stayed right dere for seven years. I lost my wife at dat place -and sold my land. I paid $90 for 40 acres dere and had paid 'bout half -on it. So I sold it back to de man what I bought it from for $45 and -went to Bonne Terre and worked for de St. Joe Lead Co. and worked on de -lead well and den went to tappin'. I got $1.60 for 12 hours. I worked -dere until dey moved de works up here and den I followed de works right -up here. Den I worked 'bout 30 years here doing de same kind of work -with the same pay. - -"When I quit workin' here it was about 13 years ago and I was about 62 -years old. De company just laid me off on account of age. Den de -supervisor dere got me a job as janitor at de colored school here at -$7.00 a month. I've been janitor ever since. Dere is ten colored -families in Herculaneum, and about 50 colored people here now but dere -used to be mostly all colored but most of 'em done left. I lived here in -dis house a little more dan 5 years without payin' rent. Den after my -son got on the WPA dey begins to take $3.85 rent a month. We been payin' -rent 'bout two years. The St. Joe Company owns all de houses here. We -gets our water free. I'se been gettin' a pension about a year now. - -"I shot a fellow once in de leg. It was de man who my wife was givin' my -money to. I had a trial at Kimmswick before de Justice of Peace and -served three months in de county jail at Hillsboro. The white folks come -down and got me out and it didn't cost me a thing. - -"A man has got more his own say now dan he did have. We can do more what -we want to and don't have to go to de other fellow. Slavery might a done -de other fellow some good but I don't think it ever done de colored -people no good. Some of dem after freedom didn't know how to go out and -work for demselves. Down at old John Coffman's lots of dem stayed with -him right along same as if dey wasn't free. Dey didn't want to leave -here 'cause dey didn't think dey could live if dey left him. But when -dey got away up here in St. Louis dey know they can make a livin', -without Marse John, but they got to 'go up against it.' Dependin' on -somebody else is poor business. When I was workin' I depended on myself. -If dey would have freed de slaves and give dem a piece of ground I think -dat would been a heap better dan de way dey did. Look at de Indians! -They're all livin'. I'se always been able to eat and sleep. - -"I can't hardly tell about de younger generation, I can say dat if it -was not for de old generation today de young ones would go up 'salt -creek'. Dey don't want to work. Some of dem is pretty smart. Pride is de -reason dey don't want to work. Dey dress up and strut out and have a -good time. De old folks is de cause of it. Dey say, 'I don't want my boy -to do dat; I don't want him to work hard'. I say, let him make out de -same as us old folks did. If de colored people don't pick up and see -about business dey is going to be behind. Dese young people won't go to -church. You can't get dem in dere. Dat's de place dey ought to go. I'se -been goin' to church since I was a boy. Colored folks did not raise me. -White folks learned me to go to church. Mrs. Baker, at Cook's -Settlement, would read de Bible every night at 9 o'clock and she would -'splain it to me. If she was not able, her daughter read it. We need a -workhouse for de young people. - -"De first time I ever cast my vote was for Garfield who got killed. It -was in Kimmswick. Been votin' ever since, and vote all through dem all. -I'se been talked to lots of times, tellin' me how to vote. Dey even give -me a ballot and show me how to vote. I would stick dat in my pocket and -vote like I pleased. I ain't never sold my vote but I'se been offered -$10 for it. But I say if you is goin' to get beat, I say you is just -beat. You ain't no man to go over there and cast your vote. You got to -stand for your point. - -"De first automobile I ever seen had buggy wheels. It made a terrible -racket. Mrs. Baker told me dat people was goin' sometime to be ridin' in -automobiles and in de air." - - - - -Alex Bufford - - - *Interview with Alex Bufford,* - *St. Joseph, Missouri,* - *by Carl B. Boyer, St. Joseph,* - *Buchanan County, Mo.* - -The wonderful meteoric display known as the "star shower" or "the time -when the stars fell," occured in 1833. It was on the night of the 12th -and 13th of November. Many ignorant persons concluded that the Judgement -day had come, or that the end of the world was at hand. Negroes -especially were very much frightened. A dance was in progress on a -Buchanan County farm, attended exclusively by slaves from the -neighborhood. When the star shower began the negroes were first made -aware of the fact by a messenger who ran frantically into the cabin and -shouted, "If you all wants to git to hebin, you'd better 'gin to say yo' -pra'rs mighty sudden, 'cause the Lawd is a-comin' wi' de fire an' de -glory an' de wuld'll be burnt up like a cracklin' 'fo mo'nin." - -The dancers ran out, fell on their knees and cried for mercy. Not for -many days did they recover from their fright. One old negro declared -that if the world and his life were spared he would agree to break -eighty pounds of hemp every day instead of fifty, as he had been -accustomed to do. - -The Negro was a part of the early Buchanan County family. They were -black slaves and happy. - -The negro Mammy had her proper place in the scheme of things. She was no -fiction of a later day novelist, but genuine, gentle, untiring, and -faithful. The Negro mammy merits a prominent place in the picture an -artist might paint, for on her broad shoulders was carried the -generation which made the early history of Missouri fascinating and -great. - -When once a week came "Johnny Seldom"--as the hot biscuits made of wheat -flour were called in Old Missouri--all other kinds of bread faded into -nothingness. Two kinds of biscuits were typically Missourian--the large, -fluffy, high biscuits--which looked like an undersized sofa pillow--and -beaten biscuits, small, crisp, delicious--the grandfather of all -afternoon tea refreshments. No "Po' white trash" can make beaten -biscuits. Indeed, much of the finest flavor of all cookery belonged -intuitively to the Negro. How the Negro cook managed to get biscuits -steaming hot from the cookroom a quarter of a mile distant through the -open yard to the dining room table has always been a mystery. She did -it, however, and successfully. - -Mr. Alex Bufford, an ex-slave, lives at 1823 Seneca street, St. Joseph, -Missouri. Mr Bufford, (everyone calls him Uncle Alex) does not know how -old he is, but says he does remember that he was a grown man at the time -of the Civil War. - -I heard about Uncle Alex from one of the ladies in the reference room at -the Public Library in St. Joseph, Mo. She told me I would have to see -Uncle Alex right at the noon hour or in the evening, as he would be at -work during working hours. I didn't ask her what kind of work he did but -I heeded her advice about seeing him at the noon hour. I arrived at his -place about 11:50 A.M. As I got out of my car I happened to look up the -alley. An old Negro driving a one-horse wagon was just entering it. I -guessed in a minute that this was the old gentleman I wanted to see. -When he approached I did not tell him at first what I wanted but started -talking about the weather. I saw in a minute the old fellow was going to -be interesting to talk to. - -After we had commented about the weather, I told him what I wanted. -Uncle Alex, "Ya sir, I'll be bery glad to tell you anything I kin -recollect, but I don't remember like I used to." He said, "I don't know -how ole I am, but I was a grown man at the time of de war and I guess -I'se de oldest man in de city. I was born in Buchanan County and have -libed here all my life. I only been out de state once in my life and dat -wuz ober to Elwood seberal years ago. (Elwood, Kansas is only about 2 -miles west of St. Joseph.) I'se just don't keer to go any place." - -To my question about his family he replied. "Ya sir, I hab four -daughters and one son libing, but da don't help dis ole man any. Until I -got de ole age pension seberal months ago, I had a terbil time making a -libing." - -Uncle Alex and his brother who is younger than he, live together. The -brother is an old man more feeble than Uncle Alex. - -After the War Uncle Alex worked on the farm for the Conetts, near -Faucett, Mo. in Buchanan County for several years. Then he moved to town -and worked for the same people in their brickyard until just a few years -ago. - -The house Uncle Alex lives in now belongs to the people he worked for so -long. He lives there rent free. - - - - -Harriet Casey - - - *Interview with Harriet Casey,* - *aged 75, Fredericktown, Missouri.* - *Interviewed by J. Tom Miles.* - -"I've lived here 'bout 65 years. I was born in slavery on de Hill place -in Farmington. My mother's name was Catherine. Father's name was George. -A brother and sistah of mine was sold as slaves 'fore I was born. I -nevah saw them. My father was sold away from my mother. Our home was not -pleasant. The mistress was cruel. Her brother would go down in de -orchard and cut de sprouts and pile 'em up under de house so as de -mistress could use 'em on us. She also used a bed stick to whip with. - -"One day we took de cows to pasture and on de way home I stopped to -visit Mrs. Walker and she gave me a goose egg. And den when we got home -de old mistress kicked me and stomped on us and broke my goose egg. -Did'n mind de whipping but sure hated to break my egg. - -"Our cabin was one room, one door and one fire place. Our mistress was a -rich woman, and she had three husbands. She had a big square smoke house -full of hog, beef, deer, all pickled away. She had 12 cows and lots of -butter and a spring-house. - -"To eat we had corn meal and fried meat dat had been eaten by bugs. We -had some gravy and all ate 'round de pans like pigs eating slop. And we -had a tin cup of sour milk to drink. Sometimes we would have -gingerbread. Dis was 'bout twice a year. - -"My brother dat was a slave ran off with four or five other boys and -never come back. He went west and died in Honolulu. They had a -'niggerbreaker' in Farmington who would take care of de slaves who were -hard to handle. - -"Once it got so cold dat de chickens froze and fell out of the trees and -de mistress gave each of us a chicken to eat. We had no shoes even in -winter. I can't 'member having good clothes. - -"One of our neighbors, Mr. McMullin, was a poor white but he had a heart -and was our mistress' guardian. I was too little to do much but I would -walk along de furrows and hit de oxen with a stick. My sistah come and -got me after freedom and learned me de alphabet. De first thing I ever -learned to read was, 'I see you Tom. Do you see me?' I worked for -intelligent people and learned a great deal. After I married I wanted to -learn a great deal and how to read. At de camp in Mine La Motte I went -to school in a log house for 'bout two months. - -"Dey would whip with a cat-o'-nine-tails and den mop de sores with salt -water to make it sting. De traders would come through and buy up slaves -in groups like stock. On de way south dey would have regular stopping -places like pens and coops for de slaves to stay in; at each of these -stoppin' places some of de slaves would be sold. My uncle's father was -his master and de master sold my uncle who was his own son. - -"When my mother died I did not know what a coffin was or what death was. -So I went to my dead mother where she was on de cooling board and -brushed my dress and said, 'Look at my pretty dress.' - -"There was a tough gang called patrollers. Dey would scare de Negroes -and would keep dem always afraid. De mistress would take a couple of us -young ones to church but when we got home things were different. - -"And I never seen so many soldiers in my life before or since than when -Price come through on his raid. It was apple pickin' time and de -mistress made us gather apples and pack 'em to the soldiers and we had -to pack water from de spring to 'em. De mistress had pickets out in -front of de house when de soldiers was in town. - -"Once when de Union soldiers was in town a negro soldier come and got -him a turkey off de fence. De next night a white soldier come to get a -turkey and he looked all over de place and come up over de stile. Den de -mistress goes out on de porch and called de dogs and said, 'Sic the -rogue'. De soldier took out his pistol and laid it on de fence and -waited awhile and looked. De dogs were jumping up against de fence. So -de soldier shot de dog and then went off and got on his hoss again. - -"One day a Union officer come up and had a saber and said he would cut -off de mistress' head. De officer was a Dutchman. The mistress then ran -to town for help. De soldier came right in de cabin and said, 'Me no -hurt you.' De soldier went in de safe in de house and ate all he wanted -and den went to bed in de house. Finally de law come and moved him out -of de bed off de place. De soldiers would come at night and rout de -slave women out of bed and make 'em cook de soldiers a square meal." - - - - -Joe Casey - - - *Interview with Joe Casey,* - *Festus, Missouri.* - - _Sold Slave, Ill Luck Followed_ - -"I did not get to see my daddy long. He served in de first of de war and -come home sick and died at Cadet. I was born at Cadet. I lives here in -Festus and am 90 years old. My mother was Arzella Casey and was a slave -in Cadet. Tom Casey owned both my mother and father. De master had a -pretty good farm and dat was where I worked when I was a boy. Mr. Casey -never hit me a lick in my life. He was sure good to us. I had an uncle -John and dey had to sell him 'cause dey could not do anything with him. -Dey took him to Potosi before dey sold him. He did not want to be drove. -Mr. Casey said if he had 100 niggers he would never sell another one. He -said he never had any more good luck since he sold John. Losing his -children was his bad luck. - -"Before freedom we had our own house and stayed here after freedom. My -master said, 'Well, Joe you are your own boss.' I said: 'How come?' He -said: 'I'll help you.' Dey would not turn us out without a show. We -stayed dere free and I went out in de diggin's in de tiff at Valle -Mines. Some days I made $5 and den some days made $2. White folks would -come and get ma and she would go to help kill hogs and clean up de lard. -Dey paid her good. We must have stayed about 3 years at Casey's after de -freedom and den went to Mineral Point and worked for de tiff and -mineral. I married up dere and had about 13 children by 2 wives. I ain't -got no wife now. Dey is both dead. My children is scattered so I don't -know how many is livin'. I got a boy dat went to this last war and I -think he is out west somewhere. I got two boys here. One is workin' for -de factory in Crystal City. De other one knows lots about cement. I got -another child in New York. They don't write to me. I can't read or -write. Dere was no school for niggers dem days. I has to make a cross -mark every time I do anything. I went to school one week and my mother -had to clean tiff to make a livin' for dem children and get grub so I -had to go to work. I had about seven sisters and brothers altogether. I -done worked at everything--steamboating, cutting wheat in Harrisonville, -Illinois. I was here when dis was all woods, man. Me and a saloon keeper -have been here a long time, more'n 50 years I guess. I pay $5 a month -rent or just what I can give 'em. My two boys lives here with me now and -I get $12 pension. - -"Dat's when my old master run when dem blue jackets come. Dey made me -kill chickens and turkeys and cook for 'em. De lieutenant and sergeant -would be right dere. De master would go out in de woods and hide and not -come out till they rung de bell at de house. - -"I voted since I been 21. I voted for Roosevelt twice. Some thinks he is -goin' to get in again. What's the use of takin' money from a man for -votin' a certain way? If I like you and you have treated me good all my -life den I'll vote for you. - -"I don't know what I think about de young Negroes today. Dey is all -shined up and goin' 'round. If dey can read and write dey ought to know -de difference between right and wrong. I don't think dey will amount to -much. Some of 'em ain't got no sense. My mother would not let me stay -out. Now, dat is all dey doin'. Last night de policeman put a knot on my -boy's head; he was drinkin' and got into it with a coon. De young -colored people is fightin' all de time. I don't get out. Just go to de -store and come back home again. Dere is a house right near where dey has -a big time every night. De whites and black ones was mixed up here till -I stopped it. Right down in dat hollow I'll bet you'll find one-third -white women livin' with black men. Most all de colored people around -here is workin' in the works here at Crystal City. Dey will get up a war -here if they keep on, you just watch, like they did in Illinois when dey -burnt up a heap of coons. It's liable to get worse de way dey is goin' -on." - - - - -Lula Chambers - - - *Interview with Lula Chambers,* - *St. Louis, Missiouri.* - *(Written by Grace E. White.)* - -The subject of this sketch is Lula Chambers who is not certain of her -age. However she knows she is past ninety and that she was born in -Gallatin County, Kentucky near Virginia. She lives with a granddaughter, -Genevieve Holden, 2627 Thomas Street, St. Louis. - -Lying ill in a three-quarter metal bed in the front hall room of her -granddaughter's 4-room brick apartment, the old lady is a very cheerful -person, with an exceptionally fair complexion. Her brown hair is mixed -with gray and she wears it quite long. Her room is neatly furnished. - -"I was born in Gallatin County, Kentucky, more than ninety years ago, -slaves didn't know dere age in them days when I come along. I do know I -was born in July and my mammy's name was Patsy Lillard. I don't know -nothing at all about no kind of father. Course, I had one but who he was -I never knew. I ain't never even seen my mother enough to really know -her, 'cause she was sold off the plantation where I was raised, when I -was too young to remember her, and I just growed up in the house with -the white folks dat owned me. Dere names was Dave Lillard. He owned more -dan one hundred slaves. He told me dat my mother had seven children and -I was de baby of 'em all and de onliest one living dat I knows anything -about. They sold my mother down de river when I was too young to -recollect a mother. I fared right well with my white masters. I done all -de sewing in de house, wait on de table, clean up de house, knit and -pick wool, and my old miss used to carry me to church with her whenever -she went. She liked lots of water, and I had to bring her water to her -in church. I had so much temper dey never bothered me none about nursing -de children. But I did have a heap of nursing to do with de grown ups. - -"I used to get a whipping now and den but nothing like de other slaves -got. I used to be scared to death of those old Ku Klux folks with all -dem hoods on dere heads and faces. I never will forget, I saw a real old -darkey woman slave down on her knees praying to God for his help. She -had a Bible in front of her. Course she couldn't read it, but she did -know what it was, and she was prayin' out of her very heart, until she -drawed the attention of them old Ku Klux and one of 'em just walked in -her cabin and lashed her unmerciful. He made her get up off her knees -and dance, old as she was. Of course de old soul couldn't dance but he -just made her hop around anyhow. - -"De slave owners in de county where I was raised--de well-to-do ones I -mean, did not abuse de slaves like de pore trash and other slave holders -did. Of course dey whipped 'em plenty when dey didn't suit. But dey kind -of taken care of 'em to sell. Dey had a great slave market dere dat -didn't do nothing but sell slaves, and if dey wanted a good price for -dem de slave would have to be in a purty good condition. Dat's what -saved dere hides. My owners had a stock farm and raised de finest stock -in Kentucky. Dey didn't raise any cotton at all, but dey shore did raise -fine wheat, barley and corn, just acres and acres of it. De worse -lashing our slaves ever got was when dey got caught away from home -without a pass. Dey got whipped hot and heavy den. - -"In Arkansas many of de slave owners would tie dere slaves to a wagon -and gallop 'em all over town and would dey be banged up. I saw a strange -niggah come to town once and didn't know where he was going and stepped -in the door of a white hotel. When he saw all white faces, he was scared -most to death. He didn't even turn around he just backed out and don't -you know dem white folks kilt him for stepping inside a white man's -hotel by mistake, yes they did. - -"I can't tell you any pleasure I had in my early days, honey, 'cause I -didn't have none. If I had my studyin' cap on, and hadn't just got over -dis terrible sick spell, I could think of lots of things to tell you, -but I can't now. Right after de war dey sent colored teachers through de -South to teach colored people and child, do you know, dem white folks -just crucified most of 'em. I don't know how to read or write. Never did -know. I am de mother of five children, but dey is all dead now. I have -two grandchildren living, and have been in St. Louis seven years. I come -here from Helena, Arkansas. My husband was a saloon keeper and a barber. -He died in 1880 in Brinkley, Arkansas. I nursed and cooked in Brinkley -after he died for fifteen years for one family. - -"I wears glasses sometime. I have been a member of de church over fifty -years. My membership is in Prince of Peace Baptist Church now and has -been every since I been in St. Louis. God has been so good to me, to let -me live all dese years. I just want to be ready to meet him when he is -ready for me. My only trouble will be to love white folks, dey have -treated my race so bad. My pastor, Rev. Fred McDonald always tells me I -will have to forgive them and love dem if I wants to go to heaven. But -honey, dat's goin to be a lifetime job. I don't care how long God lets -me live, it will still be a hard job. - -"I gets an old age pension. It is very little, but I thank God for dat. -I have nothing left to do now in this world but to pray. Thank God for -his goodness to me and be ready when He comes. - -"Dis rheumatism serves me so bad I can't be happy much. Wish I could -remember more to tell you but I can't." - -The old woman is well preserved for her years. - - - - -Emmaline Cope - - - *Interview with Emmaline Cope,* - *Joplin, Missouri.* - -Emmaline Cope was born at McMinnville, Tenn., on August 20, 1848, and is -now 89 years of age. - -Emmaline's slave father was King Myers and her slave mother was Caroline -Myers. They were both owned by one Tim Myers a wealthy and prominent -planter of McMinnville. - -After peace was declared at the expiration of the Civil War, Emmaline -Cope was taken to Lowell, Kansas, and there afterwards, was married to -John Cope. Thirty five years ago John Cope died in Kansas and Emmaline -Cope then moved to Joplin with one girl child. They have lived in Joplin -continuously since then. - -When interviewed Mrs. Cope, slowly recovering from a paralytic stroke, -seemed unable to give any details of the Civil War activities. - - - - -Peter Corn - - - *Interview with Peter Corn,* - *Herculaneum, Missouri.* - - _Peter Tells How Slavery Began_ - -"I'se 83 years old and was born in Ste. Genevieve County and my old -slave-time place was in New Tennessee about 14 miles west of de town of -Ste. Genevieve. My master had only my mother, my mother's brother, and -an old lady by de name of Malinda. My mother had six children but only -four of us lived to be grown. Father was owned by a Mr. Aubushon right -dere at Coffman. Mother come from way south in Kentucky and she was -owned by a Master Calvin dere and when him and de mistress died de -slaves had to be divided up among de children. Den my mother's mistress -left Louisville and brought her here to Missouri. When mother come to -Missouri she was only 9 years old. - -"My old mistress, I can't say a hard word about her. Before I was borned -she was left a widow and she treated us almost like white folks. She -took care of us and raised us up. Mother died after she had six children -and we was left in de care of dis old mistress. The Catholic people -treated us like as if we was free. My mother and father was married by -de priest and it was lawful. But dese other ones was married by de -master hisself. When dey married de master could pick up any old kind of -paper and call it lawfully married. An almanac or anything would do. But -what was it? The colored people didn't know A from B and wasn't allowed -to learn to read. If my master or mistress would see me readin' a paper -dey would come up and say, 'What you know about reading a paper? Throw -dat down.' Dis was done to keep us from learnin' to read anything. - -"After we got free what did we do to get lawfully married to our -slave-time wife? Understand good now. Den de squire came around and we -had to get married all over again under de new constitution. It would -cost $5. When de master first married us he would say in de ceremony -something like dis: - -"'Now, by God, if you ain't treatin' her right, by God, I'll take you up -and whip you.' The girl's mistress would chastise her de same way. I -would choose who I wanted to marry but I had to talk to my master about -it. Den him and de owner of de girl I wanted would get together and talk -it over. - -"Dere is lots of people right today who can't tell you how de new -constitution come up. In slave time, young man, we was stock, like -cattle and hogs. If I killed 50 men nothin' was said about jail, but we -got whipped den. Dat was your sufferin' for what you done done. Man, I -never got but one whippin' from my master. I can tell you just how it -come. It was done through takin' care of an old cow. Now, in dem times, -son, dere was not gates like dere is now. You called dem 'slip bars', -and would let down a rail fence called bars to let the cattle in. -Understand, listen at it good now. Every mornin' I had to go up to de -straw stack and drive de cows to de barn. To milk dem we had to drive -dem down a lane to de house for de old cook woman to milk. As I drove -dese cows dey all got through de gate but when de last cow come through -she fell over de bottom rail and de master was standin' at de window and -saw dis happen. De snow was about three feet deep. Now listen good. De -old master was crippled and so here he come with a walkin' stick in one -hand and a cowhide in de other. - -"He said, 'By God, I'm goin' to learn you, by God, how to let down -bars'. I said, 'Marster Jim, I let down every bar 'cept dat one on de -bottom'. He jumped on me and got me down in dat snow till I couldn't see -him at all. Every time he raised up an' come down with dat cowhide it -cut through de snow and hit me. I didn't had nuthin' on 'cept an old -pair of socks around my feet. You know if you was raised from birth like -dis you could stand it. It come to me, I thought dat if I ever get to be -a man I would pay de marster back for dat. - -"And so after dat when we got free I was growin' on 13 years of age. My -aunt and brothers come and got me. My old master was a shoemaker, and -one day my uncle told me to take a pair of boots and take dem over to -have half-soled. I taken dem over. I had not come across the old master -since de time we was free until dis day. But when I went in de house de -family was around dere and I forgot about payin' him back for de way he -done treated me. Jim's mother who was dere said, 'Well, Peter, don't you -wish you was back here livin' with us again?' I said, 'No, mam.' Den I -went in de kitchin and talked to Jim's wife. She was a Republican and -said, 'Wasn't dat hateful what she said about you bein' back here -again?' De next time I met my old master, Mr. Galvin, was on de road. He -was walkin' and could hardly drag. I was ridin' my horse and thought -about gettin' down and whippin' him but when I looked at him I thought I -might as well be whippin' a year old child. I let him go. - -"Later on Jim got poor and one day I met him at de saloon in Staabtown. -He wanted to get some leather from another store. He asked me if he -could have my horse. I said rather sharp, 'No, I won't.' Den I thought -and said, 'Mr. Jim, I'll go and get de leather myself.' So I got de -leather and taken it to his home and set it in on de porch by his door. -Den he said, 'Peter, I thank you a thousand times. Any time you need -anything in de shoe line come to me.' - -"Later on he was down and out and he come to his sisters. Dey could not -take care of him so dey put him in de asylum in Farmington. I met him in -Farmington on lots of days, and felt like payin' him back for dat -whippin'. But just looked like every time, God would say, 'No, don't do -dat. He will pay for dat. He will come down'. And he sure did pay for -it. He died in de asylum out from Farmington. I never mentioned about -dat whippin' to Jim Galvin, not a nary time. - -"When I was freed I felt like I was goin' into a new world. It was de -daughter of de old mistress what told me I was as free as dey was. It -was dangerous around de house durin' of de war. So de old mistress broke -up de old place and us boys was given to our godmother. Mary was my -godmother and it was here I was told dat I was free. We was little and -didn't know which way to go. My mistress said, 'Now Peter, you are free -and de first chance we get we are going to send for your aunt to come -and get you.' Dere were four of us brothers bein' taken care of by four -sisters, when we was free. My uncle was in de army and served two years -and had come home. He asked my aunt, 'Where are dose boys?' My aunt -said, 'Dey is still with de white folks.' So my uncle come to get us. -When he come he rid up and we was so glad to see him we run out and met -him. He said, 'Boys, I've come after you.' - -"We walked up to de house. Den de white folks was just as glad to see -Uncle Julius as if he had been their brother. Den Uncle Julius said to -my godmother, Mary, 'Well, Miss Evely, I come after Pete.' She said, -'Julius, I'm awful glad you've come to get him, I hate to give him up, -but take him and take good care of him.' Julius was told de same thing -by all de other godmothers of my brothers. All of dese sisters had de -winter clothes for us cut out but dey wasn't made. De white women said, -'All your aunt has to do is to make dem.' We had between nine and ten -miles to go to get down to my aunt's home. - -"My aunt's husband was freed at least 15 years before de war started. -His master died and he was freed by a will when the master went to de -court house in Ste. Genevieve. Now, just listen good. Dis master willed -800 acres to his slaves who divided up de farm. Before he died, he put -it down in a way dat his daughters and sons-in-laws could not break it -'cepting dey would raise several thousand dollars. De old slaves would -sit down and tell us about it. De master turns in and pays de taxes up -for 100 years. One of de trustees for de will was a Dr. Herdick and -Henry Rozier both of Ste. Genevieve. My uncle's part was 40 acres and it -was dis farm where I went when I come out from under de shelter of de -white folks. De colored would sell 2 or 3 acres at a time and all dis -farm is now sold. I was 13 when I got free and went to dis farm and -there was my home until I was right at a grown man. De only taxes we had -to pay was on household goods and stock. Every year when de personal -taxes come due I would go into Ste. Genevieve to pay de taxes. As long -as Dr. Herdick and Henry Rozier lived as overseers we was well protected -on de farm. But Ed Rozier, a lawyer, tried to get us to pay de other -kind of taxes. - -"I was goin' on 20 or 21 before I left de farm. De old lady and Uncle -died about de same time. Dey took de old lady to de River Aux Vases -Catholic Church to bury her and I stayed with de old man and he died -before dey got back from de funeral. We sold our forty acres and dere -was six heirs. Den I went to work on a farm of Mr. Aubushon for $10 a -month for 15 years. When I quit Aubushon I went den out in Washington -County at Potosi and stayed with my two uncles out dere. I served in a -iron factory dere for about two years. Sometimes I would get $5 a day. -Den when de price would fall off I would get less. Den I come back to -Ste. Genevieve County and worked by de day and den went to St. Louis. I -worked dere from one iron factory to another and so den I quit dat. - -"Den I 'run the river' three straight years from St. Louis to Cairo and -Memphis, and Baton Rouge, and New Orleans. I den quit de down trade and -rested up and made de northern trip from St. Louis to St. Paul. -Everything had to be sent from de South out to California. Dat boat had -nothin' on it 'cept eatin' things. So my aim was to get out to -California to dig gold. I got defeated in dis way. - -"De river got so low dat we would be tied up for 3 or 4 days before we -could unload it. And we never made it to de port where we could unload -it to send it to California. From dese ports you went by land with a -covered wagon and oxen or mules. It would sometimes take 6 months to get -to California from de time we left de river. My way would have been free -because I could drive a team out to California. But I never got to go -'cause de river got so low. I quit de river work and done some farming -for first one den another down in Ste. Genevieve County for a couple of -years. - -"Dey was just startin' up at Crystal City. Dere was lots in de paper -about it. Now and den William Kimer, who was livin' in Jefferson County, -wrote me to work for him. I would work for him from May to December -durin' de wheat cuttin', thrashing, corn pullin' and wheat sowin'. Den -dere was no more summer work, so Crystal City was just startin' up and -dere was no railroad and dey got everything by boat and teams hauled de -things from de river up to de plant. Sometimes there was from 50 to 60 -farm teams down at de river haulin' de coal, brick, etc. for de company. -Sometimes we would make $15 a day for de farmer man and he would pay me -$10 a month and board. Den I went to Crystal City and worked 13 straight -years. De most dat ever I got dere was five or six dollars a day. Dis -would be about every three months w'en we tore down de furnace and built -it back. At other times I would get about $4.50 a day. I done -everything. Made mortar, carried de hod and brick and when quittin' time -come you was tired. After I quit Crystal City I went down in Ste. -Genevieve County and farmed and got married and had two children. My -wife and one child, a little girl, is dead. I live here with my son and -his wife. My son has been workin' for de St. Joe here for 12 or 13 -years. I had to quit work when I lost my eye-sight. - -"I was grubbin' hazel-nut bushes in dem rich bottoms in Ste. Genevieve -County; and one day I was runnin' and fell down on a stob and it went -through my left eye. Dis happened about 40 years ago. De other eye was -good till I was 45 and den I had de loss of both eyes and been blind -ever since. I'se been gettin' a blind pension for 22 years. It is $75 -every three months. - -"Dere is only one colored family here dat owns their house. All de -others rent from the company. I vote at every presidential election, but -dat's about all I ever do vote. I been votin' for every president -election since I was 21 years old. From de beginning to de end it's -always the same, the Republican ticket. Dey joke me a good deal around -here 'bout voting one way. - -"As I look back on it, people ought never to have been slaves. Dat was -the low downest thing dat ever was. De first startin' of slavery was -when a white man would go over to Africa and de people over dere was -ignorant and de white man would hold up a pretty red handkerchief and -trade it for one of de Negro women's children. De Negroes in Africa was -too ignorant to know better and dis is de way slavery started. I always -said like dis, when de older ones that knowed de things, dey ought have -learned de slaves their names as dey was in Africa. Lots of us don't -know what our grandparents was in Africa. Slavery didn't teach you -nothin' but how to work and if you didn't work your back would tell it. -Slavery taught you how to lie, too. Just like your master would tell you -to go over and steal dat hog. Den de other master from who I stole de -hog would say, 'Peter, why I've lost a hog; did you ever see him -anywhere?' I would say, 'No, suh'. Of course if I did not lie I would -get a whippin'. - -"De white people did not want to put us in a state to ourselves after de -freedom 'cause dey couldn't do without us. De colored people done come -up too high now to back 'em and dey got a better chance. De conditions -now of de colored people is of course better now 'cause dey is somebody. -But every day dey is tryin' to starve us out and give de white man a job -on de state road. Dey do dat to keep us down. Dat's done more now dan -ever before. It's been worse since Roosevelt got in dere. When Highway -61 was put in from St. Louis down to Festus de colored man had a part to -do. Since Roosevelt got in dey won't even let a colored man walk down de -highway." - - - - -Ed Craddock - - - *Interview with Ed Craddock,* - *Janitor, Saline County Court House,* - *Marshall, Missouri.* - - _Veteran Janitor_ - -Marshall, Missouri has a life-long negro citizen who was born in -slavery, but was too young to remember actual slave conditions. He is Ed -Craddock, born a few years before the Civil War, the son of slaves owned -by leading pioneer families. Craddock lived through the hard days of -reconstruction. His own father was a school building janitor in Marshall -in the 1870's, and Ed Craddock was apprenticed under his sire, finally, -upon death of the latter, succeeding to the job, which he has held for -forty-seven years. Years ago he married and reared a large family. -Craddock belongs to the Methodist Church, serving as "second -minute-man", which he explains is something like a secretary, and also -belongs to the Colored Masonic Lodge. Craddock's brother is a practicing -physician in St. Louis. - -"Stories told me by my father are vivid," Craddock said in an interview. -"One especially, because of its cruelty. A slave right here in Marshall -angered his master, was chained to a hemp-brake on a cold night and left -to freeze to death, which he did. My father said slaves had to have a -pass to go places. 'Patrollers' usually went in groups of three. If they -caught a slave off his plantation without a pass the patrollers often -would flog them." - -Craddock relates that his father suffered from chills and fever which, -quinine, the only remedy known then, failed to cure. Someone advised -him, next time the chill came on, to plunge into a deep and cold hole in -the river. Ed says his father, out of desperation, tried the suggested -cure, and it worked, in a way squaring with the modern medical theory of -setting up a counterirritant in certain cases. - -Craddock's mother was owned by the family of Marmadukes, one of whom was -an early-day governor of Missouri. - - - - -Isabelle Daniel [TR: Mrs. Eli Daniel] - - - *Interview with Mrs. Eli Daniel,* - *Marshall, Missouri.* - -An aged negress answered the door when I knocked and asked if this was -Isabelle, she invited me into her parlor, a tiny room with a rather -good-looking brussels rug upon the floor, and panel lace curtains hung -at the windows. The walls were hung with enlarged crayon pictures of -Isabelle's husband and their sons and daughters; no other pictures adorn -the walls. The center is the old family Bible occupying the place of -honor; all the births, deaths, and marriages of the family have been -carefully recorded in this book. An album holds next place and contains -many old fashioned pictures of her "white folks" and friends of her -younger days. - -The outside of this little four room house is quite attractive, it was -formerly painted white, but not much paint clings to it now; old -fashioned green shutters still hang at the windows, a tiny little -portico shelters the front door. There is room at one end for a small -porch swing to be hung. At the other end an old weather-beaten chair -affords a resting place for the caller. - -The yard is entirely enclosed by a fancy wire fence, and a concrete walk -leads to the porch. - -This old woman lives entirely alone in this little cottage which was -provided for her many years ago by the will of her old master. - -She says she is 87 years old, but circumstances seem to indicate that -she is at least 90; she said she was married and had a child about a -year old when the war closed in 1865. - -Her work as a slave was almost all in the house; she was taught to sew, -and had to help make the clothes for the other slaves. She also was a -nursemaid for her mistress' little children and at one time was hired -out to the methodist preacher's family to take care of the children when -his wife was ill. - -She remembered joining the "white folks" methodist church in old -Cambridge and going to church on Sundays and sitting in the Gallery, -which was the place reserved for colored people in that particular -place. - -On Sunday morning Aunt Cindy got "happy" at the services and began to -throw herself about and shout; the white folks on the seats below -hurried to get out from under the edge of the balcony for fear Aunt -Cindy would lose her balance and fall over the railing to the floor -below. - -Isabelle is a Firm Believer in "hants." - -When she was a girl the adjoining plantation was owned by her master's -brother-in-law, and on this plantation was the big old tobacco factory -where the tobacco raised on several neighboring plantations was priced -and hung. The negroes on her master's place said this factory was -"hanted." None of them would go near this factory after nightfall, for -"when the nights were still and the moon was full, you could hear the -ting, ting, ting, of the lever all night long and voices of the slaves -crying out and complaining, and you knew there wasn't anybody there at -all, jest hants." - -Isabelle was a mid-wife by profession after the war, and tells this as -one of her experiences. - -She was caring for a lady that had just had her second child; they lived -in a cottage with a full basement under it. - -The father was to take full care of the other child, a little boy, at -night, and they were to sleep in the basement. The father and little son -tried to sleep in the basement for two or three nights, but the father -could not sleep. Something bothered him as if restless spirits were -abroad. One morning Isabelle said she was standing by the door when she -heard a voice, low and vibrant, saying, "No sleep here. Can't sleep -here." No one was there but her and the mother and the two little -children, so, of course, she knew it was "hants". This was proved to her -satisfaction a few months later. The skeleton of a man was found under -the basement floor. - - - - -Henry Dant - - - *Interview with Henry Dant,* - *Hannibal, Missouri.* - - _Henry Says He's 105_ - -Henry Dant, now living with his daughter on Davis Street in Hannibal, -was born in slavery on the farm of Judge Daniel Kendrick, south of -Monroe City in Ralls County. He is about one hundred and five years old, -in possession of all his faculties and is able to move around the house. -He seemed to have only hazy recollections, and it was difficult to keep -him from wandering from the subject. The following is the story that he -told: - -"I was married and had three children when we was freed. The only slaves -Mr. Kendrick had was my mother, brother, sister, and myself. Mr. -Kendrick had three boys. Joe carried mail to Paris, and de other two, -Bob and Jerome, was school teachers. - -"We was treated fair when we behaved ourselves, but we had to be -straightened out sometimes but we were not mistreated. We worked hard on -de farm. I cradled wheat and plowed corn often till midnight. We often -drove hogs to Palmyra and Hannibal. When dere was no crops in de fields -we made brooms and baskets. My brother died and den I had to do most of -de work. I was de only colored man on de place den. De Stage stopped at -Mr. Kendrick's place and I had to look after de horses and mules. De -mail come dere too, and dere was always a lot of people to be fed. - -"Mr. Kendrick was judge of de court at New London and he was away most -of de time. He was a big man in de county in dem days, and I had to go -to town often. Once when I was driving to town with de ox team and wagon -during de war, dere was soldiers on de road like you never did see. I -tell you dem was bad times. I come back a different road because I was -afraid, and I run dem oxen most of de way home. I got dere all right, -but de oxen laid down on me once. De next morning one of the oxen was -dead and in about a week de other one died. Dey just couldn't stand de -running. - -"Two of de master's boys got locked up over in New London or some place -during de war. Dey come back after the war was over. - -"I played a fiddle for all de weddings and parties in de neighborhood. -Dey paid me fifteen or twenty cents each time and I had money in my -pockets all de time. - -"When we was set free dey gave us a side of meat and a bushel of meal. -Dat's all we got. I went on a farm and farmed for myself, later I owned -a farm in Ralls County. We raised corn and pigs and drove de pigs to -Hannibal and Palmyra. When I got too old to farm I come here to live -with my daughter. I get a pension now for about a year. It's not very -much but it helps." - - - - -Lucy Davis - - - *Interview with Lucy Davis,* - *Cape Girardeau, Missouri.* - -"In dem ole days we lived down near Hickman, Kentucky. We belonged to -Masta' Joe Mott and Missus Mary Mott. Den dey was young Massa' James -Andrew an' young Massa' Joe, an' dey wuz Missie Ophelia an' Missie Mary -Rebecca. - -"Dey had a nice big house, white wid big porches an' big locust trees -aroun' in de yard. Dey only had us one famly o' slaves but dey wuz a -good many er us. - -"My Daddy wuz Henry Litener and my mammy wuz Rosanna Litener. My daddy -belonged to Woodson Morris. He wuz a cousin of Massa Joe Mott an' lived -a few miles away. He wuz allus allowed to visit us over Saturday night -an' Sunday. Mammy done de cookin' at de big house an' Massa Joe allus -said dey warn't nobody cud cook like Rose--dat's what he call her. - -"We lived in a three-room log house an' we allus had plenty good eatin'. -Hams, puddi near all year round chickens, en' sweet'taters an' possums -too. - -"Cain't tell 'bout no good times in dem days 'cause dey warn't none. We -didden have no church but Ole Missus Mary usta carry mammy along to her -church--ridin behind on her hoss. I guess dey wuz mos'ly right good to -us all. The chillern wouldn' never let nobody whup me 'cause we all -played togedder. But Ole Massa usta whup mammy when he'd git mad. - -"When de war came Ole Massa didden go but he war a reg'lar ole seesesh! -Young James Andrew went off to war an' ole Missus usta grieve for him. -We ain't never seed no fightin' round our place but we could hear de big -guns over at Columbus. When de sojers was round de neighborhood dey'd -allus have me playing' round de front gate so I cud tell em when dey's -comin' up de road. Den dey goes an' hides 'fore de sojers gits dar. Dey -all skeer'd o' de sojers. I's skeerd too but dey say sojers won't bother -little black gal. De sojers jes' came in en' ransack de house--dey finds -sumthin to eat an' dey looks for money. Dey wants money! but dey don' -find none. Den dey wants ter know whar's my folks--but I tells 'em I -don't know. Dey jes left en' didden say whar dey wuz goin'. - -"When de war wuz over Ole Massa Joe came in an' he say: 'Rose, you all -ain't slaves no mo'--You is all free as I is.' Den you should a heard my -mammy shout! You never heerd sich shoutin' in all yo' bahn days. An' Ole -Missus she joined in de shoutin' too. She war glad 'cause now James -Andrew would be comin' home. - -"Old Missus Delia Reed, dat wuz Old Massa's sister, she wuz good 'bout -lookin atter us wen we's ailin' but iffen we's sick dey'd git de doctor. -Dey wuz jes as dutiful to us as to dere white folks. - -"Dey usta talk--bout hoodoos an castin' spells en' sech like--but I -guess dey warn't much to it er dey'd a cast spells on some a' de mean -Massa's when dey beat um up. Still iffen dey had, mebby dey'd a beat um -up worser or mebby killed em." - - - - -Mary Divine - - - *Interview with Mary Divine,* - *St. Louis County, Missouri.* - - _Was Nurse Maid At 4_ - -The subject of this sketch is Mary Divine, 85 years old. She lives at -8004 Elinore Avenue, St. Louis County, Missouri, with her son and -daughter-in-law. - -Her home is an old fashioned 3-room slate dwelling, with an abundance of -old furniture for such a small place. The little old woman was -interviewed while mending the pockets in her son's trousers. Her story -follows: - -"I was born May 24, 1852 in Carroll County, Tennessee. My mother's name -was Mary Whitehorn, 'cause she was owned by de Whitehorns in dat county. -My father's name was James Farrow 'cause he was owned by de Farrows. De -slaves had to carry dere owners' names, married or what not. My mother -had three children. My first owner's name was George Whitehorn and his -wife's was Jackie Whitehorn. When old Marse George died, we was handed -down to Joseph Whitehorn in Miss Jackie's will. She knowed long before -freedom we were going to be free, so she had in her will dat her -darkies,--she always called us darkies--had caused dem to have all dey -owned and it was no more dan right when we git free to divide up de -plantation so every one of us could make a good livin' on de livin' we -done made for dem, and dey still own and have plenty. She was a good old -soul. She didn't want a one of us to leave, even after freedom been -declared. She said she would never live to see it and she didn't -neither. She died 'fore we was free, and dem chillun never did carry out -her will neither. - -"'Cause dey didn't give a one of us nothin', no, nothin' at all. Put us -out wid just what we had on our backs, and dat was most nothin'. At 4 -years old I had to nurse old man George's son, Joseph's baby, and de -baby was most big as me, but I nursed it just de same, honey. Dey put me -in dat family nursin' dat baby 'fore I was four 'cause dey put me dere -in January and I wasn't four years old till de incoming May dat same -year. I 'member dat right well. I nursed dat baby for two years, too, -and it sure was crazy 'bout me. I loved it too, yes, I did. Den after -two years dey sent me to work for de old man's oldest son, Jacob. Dey -made me do all de cardin' and spinnin', make ropes and ply lines, two -cuts a day, was my task and I stayed dere in dat family until after the -Civil War was over. - -"I heard my father got killed in de Civil War. I never knowed for sure, -'cause three months 'fore I was born, his owners carried him away to -some other part of de country and we never seen nor heard from him no -more. Mother never did know what happened him, no she didn't. - -"Just 'fore war was declared I was still young and small but just de -same I had to help pack brick to de moulders where dey would be building -brick chimneys, and work in de field, too. I had it mighty hard in dem -days, yes I did but den it wasn't hard as some others had it. - -"I 'member during de war days, my old miss use to boast 'bout her -littlest darkey, done spun enough thread to clothe her whole family for -de next three years to come. For two years after freedom was declared I -worked from farm to farm and de promise we was going to get paid, but we -never got nothin' from none of dat work but de old slave cabin to sleep -in and food enough just so we could work. - -"We had noboby down in dat country to make folks keep dere word and pay -a nigger, so we just have to keep on travelin'. After 'bout three years -later I cooked in de same county for a Bill Green. Got my board and keep -and $1.00 a week. He kept me 'bout five months. Dey never did keep us -long for pay. Den I went to John Carney's plantation wid my mamma. I -card and spun dere for 'bout one year and some weeks. We got $1.00 a -week and he was supposed to give us home made cloth to make us some -clothes for our work, but he never did do it. After dat we went to work -on Sub Allen's farm for $1.00 week. I took sick dere and dey had to call -in a doctor. My mamma and me worked for him a long time, but we got -ready to go and want our money he said, while I was sick it taken all he -owed us to pay my doctor's bill so we didn't git nothin' dere, but a -place to stay and we shore did work like slaves in all dem places, from -sun up till sun down just like in slave days. Only difference was we -didn't git a beatin' when we didn't suit. I couldn't make no money for -clothes or nothing so I just up and married and had eleven children. Den -my husband died. I had a child in dis last World War. He was my ninth -child and got took in de last draft. I never heard of him no more. Dis -one I'm living with named Ulysses Divine. He's de only child I got -living I know anything about. - -"I been here in St. Louis since Wilson's first administration and worked -in de nut factory five years. I like to sew and do general housework. I -read, write and spell a little but not enough to speak about. I know dis -young generation's got a mighty fine chance if dey 'cept of it and -'preciate it. Course some do and some don't. I prefer living in town dan -out here but my son bought dis spot. I can't make my own living no more, -so I got to live on it. I git what de relief pretend to call help, -'tain't nuff for nothin' though. Dey claim I'll git a pension, but I -never seen it yet. I'll be dead directly and I won't need it. I can't -answer dem other questions 'bout what us slaves expect and voting, I -don't know." - - - - -Mary Douthit - - - *Interview with wife of Charles Douthit,* - *Farmington, Missouri.* - -Note:--While the interviewer was questioning Charles Douthit, -Farmington, Missouri, negro, who was born in 1865, his wife standing in -the door looked rather wild-eyed, and unable to stand it any longer, -finally broke out with the following:--"Say! What are they gittin' all -dis stuff fur anyway? I bet I know. They want ta find out how dey -treated de ole slaves so's dey'll know how to treat the young 'uns when -dey makes dem slaves. I bet they're goin' a try to have slaves again and -dere are some people who want slavery back but de people won't stan' fur -hit now. I don't know what de government wants to do but de people would -have a most turrible war if dey tried to have slaves again. But ma -muther who worked for John Coffman in Ste. Genevieve County, wuz well -treated. She war really owned by the Missus and de Missus would not sell -ma mamma. When de war wuz ober de missus gave ma muther some land an -built her a beautiful home down dare. Ma muther wuz treated so good dat -she stayed an worked fur de Missus til de Missus died. I was borned down -in dat dare house dat de Missus built fur ma Muthuh and ma son lives -dere now. I was down dere las week, an I calls hit home." - - - - -John Estell - - - *Related by "Uncle" John Estell* - *[Missouri], age 85.* - -_Slavery_ - -"The slaves had a hard time, some of them. All the work was done by -hand. The slaves cradled the wheat. They raised hemp for clothes. The -old master had one woman who made clothes the year round for the hands. -We had to get a pass from the master to leave the place. If any of the -slaves got in trouble they were taken to the whippin' post. If they had -done a big crime they got 60 or 70 lashes with a whip, for a small crime -they got about thirty, if their master would not pay their fine. The -white folks went to singin' school then they would sing one or two songs -that's all they knew. They would have big basket meetings. All the -slaves had to set in the gallery when we went to church. Most everybody -went on hossback. Some of the farmers were good to their men and some -bad. When some farm had more slaves than was needed, he would hire them -out to some body or sell them. New Year's day was always sale day or the -day they would hire out for the year. When we wanted to get married we -had to ask the master and the girls' mother and father. All the married -man got Thursday night off to go to see their wives. - -"At Christmas time we got a week off and we got Saturday afternoon off. -At Christmas the old boss would fix a big bowl of eggnog for us niggers. -The niggers were superstitious. They would not live in a house where a -sinner had died. There was an old man and woman lived down the road from -our house that fit all the time, and by that house after dark one night -one saw them walkin' around in the house. None of us niggers would go by -there after dark, we always rode around the place. People are lots -smarter now than they was then." - - - - -Smoky Eulenberg - - - *Smoky Eulenberg,* - *Jackson, Missouri.* - *(Written from F.C.* - *in Sikeston District.)* - -"I was born on October 13, 1854. My master was Henry Walker and we live -'bout three mile from Jackson. De house was of logs. One of dose big -double kind wid a open hall in between. Solomon Eulenberg was my father -and he was a big fine looking man. My mother come fum Tennessee when she -was ten year old. - -"Master had nearly a hundred slaves and dey was about ten or twelve -cabins in de quarters. Dey was a big feeding barn where we'd hitch up -and go to work. De barn was built of big hewed logs, too. - -"No'm, dey wasn't none of us ever try to run away. We had a good home -and we all stayed till dey declare peace and lots of us kept on a -staying 'cause we didn't know nothing else to do. But my father was -industrious--he worked hard and saved his money and in a couple of year -he bought a team and we moved to a little place. - -"But lots of de cullud folks had it hard dem days--dey was jest turned -loose and didn't know what to do. Some of de white folks was mighty good -to 'em. If they'd hear of a family being hungry dey'd send food to 'em -or have 'em come to dey kitchen. - -"A cose mebbe it don't sound right but in some ways I often wish we's -back in dem days. We had a fine place. Every year we'd kill seventy or -seventy-five hogs--and had plenty of every thing. We ate our meals in -our own cabin but every morning at seven, de colored housewoman went to -de smoke house to cut meat for de day. Us youngsters all ganged up round -her, hoping to get something. Lotsa times missus would ask us if we's -hungry and bring us into de kitchen and give us what dey had left. -Sometime she have de women make up pancakes for us. Us children had de -chores to do--and any work dat we's able. - -"We didn't have no school. A woman come and stay all year round jest to -teach little Miss Lucy and she taught some of de cullud children to read -and write. Missus would have a preacher come once a month to preach. I -rec'lect his name was Rev. Watts. All of us would come into de big house -for meeting. - -"Many a time we seen soldiers pass on de road but dey never molested us -none, 'cept to come in and eat everything that was cooked--and sometime -have de women cook up some more. One Sunday morning a bunch of 'em come -by--dey had been over to Burfordville and burned de mill. Another Sunday -a bunch of Rebs come by and camped 'bout a mile from our place. Dat -night de Blue Coats ran onto 'em. Dey killed about thirty. Next morning -us boys went over there and what we saw didn't suit me none. Some of de -cullud men helped to bury 'em. - -"We had lots a good times in dem days. Us boys played marbles and ball -and other games like boys will. On Saturdays from five to nine we all -had off--den we'd congregate--and have singing and dancing. At Christmas -and such days we'd have a big time. When dey's a wedding missus always -dressed 'em and fixed 'em up. I rec'lect one time missus sold my mother -and four children but it wasn't no trade. De woman's name was Mrs. -Sheppard and she was a sassy old woman. She come into my mother's cabin -and grabbed her and told her she going to take her home. Mother jes' -pushed her out de door and said she wouldn't go--and she told missus she -wouldn't go--so dey had to call it off--it was no trade." - -(Smoky Eulenberg lives about three blocks northwest of the courthouse in -Jackson. The house was all nice and clean, his sheets and pillows all -snowy white and freshly ironed. He has been bedfast for a long time. His -wife is an interesting person, but she remembers nothing of slave days.) - - - - -Ann Ulrich Evans - - - *Interview with Ann Ulrich Evans,* - *St. Louis, Missouri.* - - _Wed For Economic Reasons_ - -Although 94 years of living have dimmed her eyes a bit and the burdens -she's packed through the years have bent her wiry frame Ann Ulrich -Evans, a former slave, is still able to carry on. She lives in a rear -apartment of the slum district at 1405 North Eighth Street with her -daughter, Eliza Grant. - -Ann declares she's had eleven children of her own and that from them -have sprung so many grand children and great grand children that she's -entirely lost count of them. The story of the incidents that have filled -her life but have still left her able to love mankind and smile follows -substantially in her own words: - -"I was born March 10, 1843 on Dolphin Street, Mobile, Alabama. My -mother's name was Charlotte Ulrich and my father's was Peter Pedro -Ulrich. I am the mother of 11 children and we has over 100 -grandchildren. Dere is so many great grandchildren and great great -grandchildren we jes' quit countin' when we comes to dem. I has four -generations, and dey give me a party three years ago, and so many of my -off spring come der wasn't any room for half of 'em and even dat was not -de beginning of de lot of 'em. I got a gang of 'em I never did see, and -never will see, I don't reckon. Dey just write and tell us dey got 'em. - -"My father was owned by a rich old boss named Captain Bullmay. He owned -a raft of boats, and my father was a cook on one of dem boats. Mamma -only raised two of her children. De Ulriches sold me when I was a girl -to Dr. Odem in de same county, and I worked in his field, spun thread to -make cloth, pulled fodder, put de spinning in, and after a while, I -don't know how long, he swapped me off for two boys. My new owner was -Gilbert Faulkner. He was a railroad section man. I worked in de field -for him until we was set free. I had some good times and some bad times -both. De man I married worked on the railroad for him. His name was -Moses Evans. Dat was in Helena, Arkansas. My husband's been dead more -dan 30 years now. I got four daughters and three sons living and a host -of grand and great grand, and great great grandchildren living. Since my -husband died, I just live from one child to the other and some time de -grandchildren takes care of me, I havn't done no kind of work since my -children got big enough to work. Dey been pretty good to me all my days. - -"'Bout a year ago de government done started giving me a pension, $11 a -month. It helps some, but don't very much, every thing's so high, honey. -When freedom come I asked my old owner to please let me stay on wid dem, -I didn't have no whar to go no how. So he just up and said, 'Ann, you -can stay here if you want to, but I ain't goin' to give you nothing but -your victuals and clothes enough to cover your hide, not a penny in -money, do no nigger get from me.' So I up and said, 'Why boss, dey tells -me dat since freedom we git a little change', and he cursed me to all de -low names he could think of and drove me out like a dog. I didn't know -what to do, or where to go, so I sauntered off to a nearby plantation -where a colored slave kept house for her bachelor slave owner and she -let me stay with her, and her boss drove me off after two days, because -I kept company with a nigger who worked for a man he didn't like. I was -barefooted, so I asked Moses Evans, to please buy me some shoes, my feet -was so sore and I didn't have no money nor no home neither. So he said -for me to wait till Saturday night and he'd buy me some shoes. Sure -'nough when Saturday night come, he buyed me some shoes, and -handkerchiefs and a pretty string of beads and got an old man neighbor -named Rochel to let me stay at his house. Den in a few weeks me and him -got married, and I was mighty glad to marry him to git a place to stay. -Yes I was. 'Cause I had said, hard times as I was having if I seed a man -walking with two sticks and he wanted me for a wife I'd marry him to git -a place to stay. Yes I did and I meant just dat. In all my born days I -never knowed of a white man giving a black man nothing, no I ain't. - -"Now child, let me tell you right here, I was always a heap more scared -of dem Ku Klux dan I was of anything else. 'Cause de war was to help my -folks. But dem old Ku Klux never did mean us no good. Honey, I used to -make pallets on de floor after de war for my children, myself and -husband to sleep on, 'cause dem Ku Klux just come all around our house -at night time and shoot in de doors and windows. Dey never bothered -nobody in de day time. Den some time dey come on in de house, tear up -everything on de place, claim dey was looking for somebody, and tell us -dey hungry 'cause dey ain't had nothin' to eat since de battle of -Shiloh. Maybe twenty of 'em at a time make us cook up everything we got, -and dey had false pockets made in dere shirt, and take up de skillet -with de meat and hot grease piping hot and pour it every bit down de -front of dem shirts inside de false pockets and drop de hot bread right -down dere, behind de meat and go on. - -"One night dey come to our house after my husband to kill him, and my -husband had a dream dey's coming to kill him. So he had a lot of colored -men friends to be at our house with guns dat night and time dey seed dem -Ku Klux coming over de hill, dey started shooting just up in de air and -about, and dem Ku Klux never did bother our house no more. I sure glad -of dat. I'se so tired of dem devils. If it hadn't been for dat dey would -have killed everyone of us dat night. I don't know how come dey was so -mean to us colored folks. We never did do nothing to dem. - -"Dey go to some of dem niggers' house, and dey run up de chimney corner -to hide and dem low down hounds shoot 'em and kill 'em in de chimney -hole. Dey was terrible. Den de next bad thing happened to us poor -niggers after de war was dis. De white folks would pay niggers to lie to -de rest of us niggers to git der farming done for nothing. He'd tell us -come on and go with me, a man wants a gang of niggers to do some work -and he pay you like money growing on trees. Well we ain't had no money -and ain't use to none, so we glad to hear dat good news. We just up and -bundle up and go with this lying nigger. Dey carried us by de droves to -different parts of Alabama, Arkansas and Missouri. After we got to dese -places, dey put us all to work all right on dem great big farms. We all -light in and work like old horses, thinking now we making money and -going to git some of it, but we never did git a cent. We never did git -out of debt. We always git through with fine big crops and owed de white -man more dan we did when we started de crop, and got to stay to pay de -debt. It was awful. All over was like dat. Dem lying niggers caused all -dat. Yes dey did. - -"I don't know what to think of this younger generation. 'Pears to me -like dey jest ain't no good. Dey is too trifling. I often times tell 'em -dere chances today side of mine in my day. Dey jest say dey wouldn't -take what I been through. - -"But dey is just a hopeless lot, just plain no good. All I can say is as -you say, some is some good but so few 'ginst de masses, take so long to -find 'em, I just don't bother 'bout trying to hunt 'em out. - -"I voted once in my life, but dat's been so long ago I don't 'member who -it was for, or where I was living at de time. I never had no friends in -politics to my knowing. All I 'member dey told me to put a cross under -de elephant, and I did dat. I don't know nothin 'more 'bout it dan dat. -Don't know what it meant or nothing. After all I been through, honest -chile, I love everybody in de world, dose dat mistreat me and dose dat -didn't. I don't hold nothing in my heart 'ginst nobody, no I don't. God -going to righten each wrong some day, so I'se going to wait with love in -my heart till dat day come. Den I speck I will feel plenty sorry, for -what's going to happen to dem dat mistreated me and my people and all -other helpless folks. 'Cause I seen white folks in my day, have 'bout as -tough time in a way as black folks, and right now some of 'em fairing -just 'bout like me. - -"I 'member how de old slaves use to be workin' in de field singing 'Am I -born to die, And Lay Dis Body Down.' And dey sing, 'Dark was de night -and cold de ground, on which my lord was laid, Great drops of blood like -sweat run down, in agony He prayed.' Another song was 'Way over in de -promised land my Lord calls me and I must go'. And 'On Jordan's Stormy -Banks I stand, and cast a wishful eye. To Canaan's fair and happy land, -where my possessions lie. All o'er those wide extended plains, Shines -one eternal day; There God, the son forever reigns, And scatters night -away. No chilling winds, nor pois'nous breath, Can reach that healthful -shore; Sickness and sorrow, pain and death, Are felt and feared no more. -When shall I reach that happy place, And be forever blest? When shall I -see my father's face, And in his bosom rest? I am Bound for the Promised -Land.' - -"I am a member of the Sanctified Church. I was a Baptist for years." - - - - -James Goings - - - *Interview with James Goings,* - *Cape Girardeau, Missouri.* - -"Teresa Cannon wuz my mammy. She belonged to old Dr. Cannon, of Jackson; -when I was born. Tom Goings wuz my Daddy: He lived on a near-by -plantation. Mrs. Dunn bought my mammy and me. Den 'Massa' Lige Hill got -us fum her. I growed up out der near Whitewater. Dey wuz 'bout twenty -slaves on de place, 'en we wuz all living pretty good--plenty to eat, -an' clothes enuf. Dey wuzn't no school out dere, an' I didden know -nothin' 'bout readin' 'bout writin'--mostly, I jes' done 'chores' -carrin' in de wood 'en water en' sech like. - -"I wuz 'bout ten years old wen de war wuz over, so I 'members well-nuf. -They wuz a battle over at White water, I didden see it, but I heard de -shooting and seed some o' de wounded men. De Southern soldiers had been -round de place for 'bout a week. 'Massa' had a grist mill 'en he had -lots o' corn. Dey wuz takin' our corn en' grindin' it for dey own use. -Dey wuz killin' our hogs, an' helpin' der selves to whut we had. Den -word came dat de 'Yankees' wuz comin'. 'Old George' was sent to take de -horses to de woods 'en hide 'em. Back in de woods he met two neighbor -boys, 'Willis' 'en 'Columbus Bain', en' dey showed him where to hide de -hosses, an' de sojers never did fin' 'em. Our young 'Massa Billie' 'en -de two 'Bain' boys got away--but de 'Yanks' druv de army clear to -Bloomfield 'en furder. - -"De dead wuz laying all long de road an' dey stayed dere, too. In dem -days it wuzn't nuthin' to fin' a dead man in de woods. De 'Yankees' took -'Old Massa' 'en all de udder men in to Cape Girardeau 'en made 'um help -build de forte. - -"We often seed sojers on de roads, but dey didden bother us much, but de -bushwackers, 'de wuz bad. One day, Bill Norman 'en his step-mother, fum -White water Station, cum up to our place. She had on a print dress 'en a -sunbonnet, 'en dat wuz all she had left in de world. Dey had burned up -everything for 'um--dey house, dey grist mill--everything. But sumtimes -de sojers got de Bushwackers--Dere wuz one fella named 'Bolen' dey got -him 'en tuck him to de Cape. Dere dey hung him on a high gate-post, jest -outside 'er town. My 'mammy', Teresa Cannon lived here in dis house wid -us for a long time. She died nine year ago at de age of one hundred 'en -fifteen." - - - - -Rachael Goings - - - *Interview with Rachael Goings,* - *Cape Girardeau, Missouri.* - -"My full name wuz Rachael Exelina Mayberry (Mabrey) an' my mammy's name -was Cynthy Minerva Jane Logan. You see I carried de name Mayberry 'cause -dat wuz my masta's name. Masta' Josiah Mayberry. My mammy carried de -name Logan 'cause dat wuz de famly she belonged to fo' Masta' bought her -down in Buckskull, Arkansas. Masta had three sons, Dosh, his wife wuz -Roberta, Alf his wife wuz Malissa and Byrd, his wife wuz Cully. In dem -days we called 'em all by dere first name. We honored de ole Masta', but -de younger folks, we didden call Masta' Dosh, or Masta' Byrd--or Missus -Cully. It wuz jes Dosh, Byrd or Cully. I didden' know de ole Missus. Dey -tole me she went crazy and kilt herself shortly after I wuz borned -'cause she thought I was white. We wuz de only slave famly Masta' had en -he wuz good to us. We all liked him, all o' us but Cynthy, dat's my -mammy I allus called her Cynthy till after de war wuz over. Cynthy -always called him "Ole Damn"--she hated him 'cause he brought her fum -Arkansas and left her twins an' dey poppy down dere. Cynthy's daddy was -a full Cherrokee. She wuz always mad and had a mean look in her eye. -When she got her Indian up de white folks let her alone. She usta run -off to de woods till she git over it. One time she tuk me and went to de -woods an' it was nigh a month fore dey found her--and I wuz nigh dead. -Dey kept me at de white folks house till I got strong again. Only one -time Masta' whip me. We made lots o' molasses on our place. Oh! lots of -molasses en' dey wuz allus some barrels standin' upright wid bungs in -close to de bottom so de 'lasses run out. One day I seed one o' de men -fix him some sweetened tobaccy. He had his tobaccy in a box about so -big, en he push de bung des way, en dat way--den down, den up den he -hol' it jes loose enough so de 'lasses trickle out over his tobaccy. I -watched him an thought I'd fix me some, too. I got my box fixed en' I -pushed at de bung, I pushed dis way, en dat way like I seed him do when -all at once dat bung flew out en' dat lasses flew all over de place. De -barrel was full en' it cum out so fast I couldn't git de bung back in. I -tried till I wuz wadin' in 'lasses to my knees. Den I run call Masta' -and tell him a bung dun bust out. He say how you do dat? I tell him I -jes knock again' 'en it flew out. Den he seed my box and he knowed how I -done it. Den he laid me on de floor an' he put his foot on my haid. He -took his switch and he gave me one good out. Den he kept beatin on de -floor. I guess dat wuz to make de others think he wuz giving me a big -beatin'. But I didden want that big foot on my haid no more. - -"De big house stood facing de road. It wuz built like lots o' houses wuz -in dem days, de kitchen and dinin' room on one side. Masta's room on de -udder with a big open hallway between. Across de front was a big porch. -We called it a gallery. Across de road, back a piece ways wuz our cabin. -Cynthy did all de cookin, an she wuz a good cook. We allus had plenty -good things to eat. De white folks would sit down en eat, en when dey's -through we'd sit down at de same table. I 'members de first shoes I ever -had. One of de men had got em fo' his little girl, en' dey was too -small. So he giv' 'em to my step-daddy for me. Dey uz too big but I wore -em en wuz proud of em. They wuz so big fo' me, they went dis way en' dat -way en' den de heels went all crooked. I wore 'em till 'bout de time de -first snow came den I guess I thought I'd wore 'em long enuf an' I -throwed em away. My step daddy whipped me for dat and made me wear 'em -all winter. - -"I must a been 'bout eight year old when de war start. Fust I knowed, -one day Masta said to me. "Child go out to de gate an see if anyone -comin." I went to de gate like he tole me an' dere was men comin down de -road. Whew! I never seed so many men in all my life. I went back en' -tole him. He didden' say nuthin' but lit out the back way across the -fields an we didden see him again fo' some time. - -"After that we saw lots o' sojers--dey'd stop at our place but dey never -bother nuthin. Masta told us allus to have plenty cookin' an bakin' -ready when de sojers came. Cynthy'd have de kitchen cupboard piled full -o' lightbread and cakes and pies--sometime dey's Rebel sojers an -sometimes dey's Republicans--We called de Northerns Republicans. We cud -allus tell 'em. The Rebels wore brown coats and the Northerners wore -blue suits wid pretty gold pieces on dey shoulders. My! but dey wuz -pretty. - -"Masta' ud come home once en awhile--an den one day he come home--I can -see him yet a-sittin by de kitchen stove. De stove sat back in de big -fireplace far enuf so de pipe go up de flue but not too far so you could -look in de oven. Dere sat de Masta lookin' like he had sumthin' to tell -mammy but was skeered to. She had her mad up that day--I jes foun' a -hen's nest an' wuz runnin' in to tell her. I hollered "Cynthy, -Cynthy"--Masta' put up his hand en say, slow like--"Stop chile! You -mustin' call her Cynthy no more. The war is over and you no more slaves. -Now you must call her mammy". But dat all de difference it made--we kep' -on livin dere just de same, till Masta' died two year atter de war. - -"One day a mule kicked him on de laig what wuz hurt in de war. It got so -bad de doctor couldn' do nuthin for it. Masta' wud holler wid pain--It -wuz in de fall of de year. One day I came in and sed, "Masta' you know -dat big yellow apple tree? It's bloomin again, en it's got little green -apples on it." He looked at me an sez--'Chile, youre lyin". I sez, "No -Masta I ain't." He say "If you're lyin' to me, I'll get up and lick you -again", so I runs and gets him a branch wid flowers on, and little green -apples, an when he sees it, he cries. He knows he's gonna die 'cause de -tree is bloomin out of season. But I didden know it. I says "Masta' if -dem apples gits ripe, we'll have good eatins''cause de big yellow mealy -ones wen dey fall, dey bust wide open." - -"Masta' died en if I'd a know'd what I know now I could have saved him. -I'd a took young elder leaves en boiled em to make a tea--den I'd a -poured dat in de sore en it ud a got well. - -"Masta' musta had hundreds a acres--'cause he give each o' his boys a -big farm--en dey was his dotter Caroline, by his fust wife--I forgit -'bout her--he give her a farm, too--Dis wuz down in Stoddard County, -near Advance. Shortly after dat Dosh died, en de rest sold out en' went -to Texas. - -"We seed Masta' lots a times after he died. I sez it wuz Masta' 'cause -it looked like him. One day I was standin lookin thru de bars o' de gate -wen I seen out in de road de largest dog I ever seed in all my life. He -wuz standin' der lookin' at me. I says to my brother, 'Look! he's got -thick sandy red hair like Masta's, en he's got a nose like Masta's, en -he's got eyes like Masta's, an he sho' do look like Masta'--Den I run -back onto de gallery where de adder folks is. Dat dog stan' dere lookin -at us, de big brush on his tail jes a wavin', den he reach thru de gate -wid one paw, en onlatch it, and walked right in. The gate went shut agin -but it didden make no noise. Den he cum up de walk en go rite across de -gallery in front of us. He jump over de side fence, en run across de -field, en go inter de woods. We know'd it wuz Masta', jes cum to look -aroun, en it git so he'd cum every day 'bout noon, jes when Masta' -always cum in fo' dinner. We ain't never seed him cum outer de -graveyard, but he always com frum dat way. En one day I wuz playing in -de doorway of our cabin an I looked across to de big house, and dere sat -Masta' in his big chair on de gallery. I called Mammy en she says--'If -you're lyin', I'll whup you.' But she cum en look, en she seed him too, -he had his white shirt-sleeve rolled up to his elbow and his red flannel -undershirt sleeve down to his wrist jes like he uster wear it. Der he -sat en while we wus lookin he got up en walked off around the house. - -"I 'members one evenin' 'bout dusk I wuz commin thru de cotton patch, -an' I run plum into a man crawlin' along--Dat wuz durin' de war, en der -he wuz crawlin' on his hands en knees. He had de biggest hands I ever -seed on a human, an his feet wasn't ever touchin de groun'--dey wuz jes -floppin' one over de udder, dis way. An his face!--I've seed false faces -but dis wuz de worst I ever seed--dere wuz big red en white stripes all -across his face. He rared up an looked at me like a dog rare on his -haunches, and jes' dat way he wuz taller dan I wuz. I didden stop to -look again' but I lit out en run through dat cotton patch. Lawd ha' -mercy! how I did run. I jes' knocked dat cotton one way er nother--en -dey didden whip me for it when I tole em 'bout it nuther. Nex' mornin' -we went down der to look, en we seed de tracks where his knees had -made--thru de cotton patch, cross the road, en enter de woods. But no -body else never did see him. I often studied, wuz he natchel, or jes a -ghost. - -"When my little brother wuz borned, I 'members dat day. Mammy and I wuz -working out in dis corn patch. She wuz coverin' corn, an she jes had -'bout three or four more rows to cover, den she ran to de house. Dey wuz -jes one room en she tried to made de udder children go outside but dey -wouldn' go, so she ran outside in de chimney corner, en soon dey heard a -baby holler. Dey called me to cum quick 'cause Mammy found a baby. By de -spring house stood a ole tree--en I seed it had blown down an in de -branches was a big nest an de nest wuz empty. I sez--"Rite dere's where -mammy found her baby--rite outer dat nest". Dey sez, "No suh! She done -found it in de chimney corner, 'cause we heard it dere." No, mammy -didden need nobody to help tend to her. Aunt Hannah Erwin was a doctor -woman. She could sure cure a woman if she had child-bed fever--but my -mammy didden need her." - - - - -Sarah Frances Shaw Graves (Aunt Sally) - - - *Interview with Sarah Graves,* - *Skidmore, Missouri.* - - _Still Carries Scars From Lashes_ - - "Sweet are the uses of Adversity, - "Which like a toad, ugly and venomous, - "Wears yet a Jewel in its head." - - --Shakespeare. - - -Childhood and girlhood memories are vivid to Sarah Frances Shaw Graves, -an 87 year old Negro woman whose indomitable courage and steadfast -purpose overcame obstacles and made possible the ownership of the 120 -acre farm near Skidmore, on R.F.D. #4, where she lives with her bachelor -son, Arza Alexander Graves. - -The frame house which is their home, though small, is comfortable. It is -surrounded by a neatly kept yard, with flower beds and a cement walk -which leads from the gate to the front door. - -The visit had been arranged by telephone, and as the interviewer neared -the home, Aunt Sally could be seen standing, on the front porch, eagerly -watching and waiting. A "close up" showed that her immaculately washed, -stiffly starched, print dress and apron were unwrinkled. Evidently she -had stood up ever since she had put them on. - -Her white hair was combed back off her fore-head, and held in place by -side combs. Although age has lined her hands, and put deep furrows in -her brown cheeks, her unquenchable will to overcome handicaps has held -her body erect and shoulders undrooped. In spite of her years, most of -which were spent in gruelling labor, she is rugged and healthy, and -meets the world with a smile and ready sympathetic laughter. - -She was eager to begin her story, and led the way into the house, where -at once the unmistakable signs of good housekeeping, cleanliness and -tasteful arrangement are apparent. The home, though small, is moderately -and comfortably furnished. They also enjoy the conveniences and -accommodations of the rural telephone, a radio and a daily newspaper. - -Her life story is one of contrasts; contrasts of thought; contrasts of -culture, beneficial inventions and suffrage. Not far from her home the -glistening streamlined Zephyr speeds on twin rails beside the Missouri -River, near the route of the slow-moving, creaking wagons on the ox-road -of the 1850's. - - -[Illustration: _Sarah Frances Shaw Graves_] - -Skidmore, Nodaway Co., Missouri. - - -"My name is Sarah Frances Shaw Graves, or Aunt Sally as everybody calls -me. Yes'm that's a lot of name an' I come by it like this. My husband -was owned by a man named Graves, and I was owned by a man named Shaw, so -when we was freed we took the surnames of our masters. - -"I was born March 23, 1850 in Kentucky, somewhere near Louisville. I am -goin' on 88 years right now. (1937). I was brought to Missouri when I -was six months old, along with my mama, who was a slave owned by a man -named Shaw, who had allotted her to a man named Jimmie Graves, who came -to Missouri to live with his daughter Emily Graves Crowdes. I always -lived with Emily Crowdes." - -The matter of allotment was confusing to the interviewer and Aunt Sally -endeavored to explain. - -"Yes'm. Allotted? Yes'm. I'm goin' to explain that," she replied. "You -see there was slave traders in those days, jes' like you got horse and -mule an' auto traders now. They bought and sold slaves and hired 'em -out. Yes'm, rented 'em out. Allotted means somethin' like hired out. But -the slave never got no wages. That all went to the master. The man they -was allotted to paid the master." - -"I never was sold. My mama was sold only once, but she was hired out -many times. Yes'm when a slave was allotted, somebody made a down -payment and gave a mortgage for the rest. A chattel mortgage." - -A down payment!! - -"Times don't change, just the merchandise. - -"Allotments made a lot of grief for the slaves", Aunt Sally asserted. -"We left my papa in Kentucky, 'cause he was allotted to another man. My -papa never knew where my mama went, an' my mama never knew where papa -went." Aunt Sally paused a moment, then went on bitterly. "They never -wanted mama to know, 'cause they knowed she would never marry so long -she knew where he was. Our master wanted her to marry again and raise -more children to be slaves. They never wanted mama to know where papa -was, an' she never did", sighed Aunt Sally. - -Only those who have lost their mate, and never know the end of the tale, -can understand such heart anguish. - -"Mama said she would never marry again to have children," continued Aunt -Sally, "so she married my step-father, Trattle Barber, 'cause he was -sick an' could never be a father. He was so sick he couldn't work, so me -and mama had to work hard. We lived in a kitchen, a room in a log house -joined on to the master's house. My mama worked in the field, even when -I was a little baby. She would lay me down on a pallet near the fence -while she plowed the corn or worked in the field. - -"Stepfather and mama often tended their own tobacco and grain in the -moonlight. This they could sell and have the money. We could go to -church which was held in the school house. Sometimes they let us play -with the other children after the noon dishes were washed and there -wasn't anything else to do. - -"There was most always something to do. Master never allowed nobody to -be idle. Mama worked in the house and the fields too. At night after she -come home from the field, she had to grate corn for the family next day. -We didn't have many grist mills them days, an' we would punch holes in a -piece of tin, and rub the ear of corn across it and make meal for our -use. - -"Nowadays, when you all want a nice wool dress, all you got to do is go -to the store and get it", Aunt Sally commented, when asked to tell about -their clothing. - -"When I was growin' up an' wanted a nice wool dress, we would shear the -sheep, wash the wool, card it, spin it and weave it. If we wanted it -striped, we used two threads. We would color one by using herbs or -barks. Sometimes we had it carded at a mill, an' sometimes we carded it -ourselves. But when we did it, the threads were short, which caused us -to have to tie the thread often, makin' too many knots in the dress. I -have gathered the wool off the fences where it had been caught off the -sheep, an' washed it, an' used it to make mittens. - -"Yes'm. I worked in the fields, and I worked hard too. Plantin' and -harvestin' in those days was really work. They used oxen to break up the -ground for corn, an' for plowin' it too. They hoed the corn with a hoe, -and cut the stalks with a hoe and shocked 'em. They cut the grain with -the cradle and bound it with their hands, and shocked it. They threshed -the grain with a hickory stick. Beating it out. - -"I carried water for the field hands. I've carried three big buckets of -water from one field to another, from one place to another; one in each -hand and one balanced on my head. - -"Yes'm. Some masters was good an' some was bad. My mama's master whipped -his slaves for pastime. My master was not so bad as some was to their -slaves. I've had many a whippin', some I deserved, an' some I got for -being blamed for doin' things the master's children did. My master -whipped his slaves with a cat-o'-nine-tails. He'd say to me, 'You ain't -had a curryin' down for some time. Come here!!!' Then he whipped me with -the cat. The cat was made of nine strips of leather fastened onto the -end of a whip. Lots of times when he hit me, the cat left nine stripes -of blood on my back. Yes ma'am." - -Aunt Sally brooded over the whipping memories, then under the influence -of a brighter thought continued:-- - -"I belong to the African Methodist Episcopal Church, an' I ain't never -cussed but once in my life, an' that was one time I nearly got two -whippin's for somethin' I didn't do. Some of master's kin folks had a -weddin', an' we walked to the church, an' somebody kicked dust on the -bride's clothes, an' I got blamed but I ain't never kicked it. The -master's daughter Puss, she kicked it. Ole mistress she whipped me. -Yes'm, she whipped me. It was the worst whippin' I ever got. The worst -whippin' in my whole life, an' I still got the marks on my body. Yes'm. -I got 'em yet. - -"When the master come home, he was goin' to whip me again, an' I got -mad, an' told him it was a lie, an' if Puss said I kicked dust on the -white folks she was a DAMNED LYIN' DEVIL. He took the switch an' gave -Puss a whippin' for tellin' a lie. Yes'm. That's the only time I ever -cussed in my life. - -"Yes'm, an' that's about all I knows about slavery and folks ways -hereabouts. I can tell you about after we was freed. When we was freed -all the money my mama had was 50 cents. I never went to school till -after I was freed. I went two winters and a little more to school near -Burlington Junction. I never went a full term 'cause I had to work. - -"I knowed my husband all my life. He was brought here by that man Jimmie -Graves, that mama was allotted to. My husband took that name. His full -name was Joseph H. Graves. We had one child, a boy. His name is Arza -Alexander Graves. He lives here with me. It's our farm. - -"I have lived on this place ever since I was married. That was in the -same year that Burlington Junction was started. We first bought 40 acres -for $10.00, then two years later we bought the back 80 acres for $15.00. -Things is changed. We workin' for ourself now, an' what we get is our'n, -an' no more whippin's. I worked in the fields and helped pay for this -land. I belong to the African Methodist Episcopal Church in Maryville." - -The day her family was freed, they had 50 cents. Today these children of -a transplanted race, once enslaved, have through years of steadfast -courage overcome the handicap of race and poverty. They threshed grain -with a hickory stick, and made their corn meal by grating the ears -across a strip of tin with holes punched in it. - -With all her handicaps, this Negro woman has lived to an honorable old -age, is self-supporting and has the respect of her neighbors. All this -she has accomplished despite the fact she was once a chattel and was -frequently "curried down" with a "cat-o'-nine-tails." - - *Interview with Sarah Frances Shaw Graves,* - *R.F.D. #4, Skidmore, Missouri.* - -Sarah Frances Shaw Graves (Aunt Sally) whose address is R.F.D. #4 -Skidmore, Missouri is eighty-seven years of age. She lives with her -bachelor son on their one-hundred-twenty acre farm. The home though -small is moderately furnished and she enjoys the comforts of the rural -telephone and radio and daily newspapers in her home. The house is -surrounded by a nice yard containing many flowers and is enclosed with -an iron fence, a cement walk leading from the front gate to the house. - -Aunt Sally had been informed that the reporter was intending to call on -her the following day and she was eagerly awaiting the arrival of the -visitor. The reporter was greatly impressed by the arrangement and -cleanliness of Aunt Sally's modest home. Aunt Sally was immaculately -dressed in a stiffly starched print dress and a fresh white apron. Her -white hair was combed straight back off her forehead and held back with -side combs. She was in a very excited talkative mood, and talked freely, -and laughed heartily when the reporter explained the purpose of the -interview and asked the privilege of taking her picture. Actual -interview follows: - -"My name is Sarah Frances Shaw Graves or Aunt Sally as everybody calls -me. I am eighty-seven (87) years old and I was born March 23, 1850 in -Kentucky somewhere near Louisville. I was brought to Missouri when I was -six months old with my Mamma who was a slave owned by a man named Shaw -who had allotted her to a man named Jimmie Graves who came to Missouri -to live with his daughter. Emily Graves Crowdes. I always lived with -Emily Crowdes. We left my Papa in Kentucky as he belonged to another -man. My Papa never knew where my Mamma and me went and my Mama and me -never knew where my Papa went. They never wanted Mama to know where my -Papa was because they knew Mama would never marry as long as she knew -where he was. Our Master wanted Mama to marry again and raise more -children for slaves but Mama said she would never marry a man and have -children so she married my step-father, Trattle Barber, because she knew -he had a disease and could not be a father. He was sick and not able to -work so me and Mama had to work hard. We lived in a kitchen, a room in a -log house joined on to the Masters house. All I knew about that part was -what they told me. The Crowdes family who we came here with, settled -near Possum Walk which is near the place that is now called Burlington -Jct., Missouri. We were freed in 1863 but we heard so much about slavery -coming back that we stayed with the Crowdes' two years longer or until -1865 when we was sure that we was freed. When we was freed we took the -same name as our Masters. We then lived about two miles north of them -and worked for some of the neighbors who was poor and had children and -we lived on Lowell Livengood's grandfather's place for about two years. -Mamma had fifty (50c) cents coming to her and that is all the money we -had. My Mama did a washing for that money for a lady and the Mistress -told her that when the lady called for her washing that the fifty cents -belonged to us. This was after we was freed. I went to school near -Burlington Jct., Missouri and my teacher's name was Rachel Libbey. I -went to school two winters a little while, I never went a full term any -time. I had to work and when the busiest time was over I would go to -school when I didn't work. I knew my husband all my life. He was owned -by this man Jimmie Graves who Mama was alotted to, but was brought here -by the man he was alloted to, named Nicholas. My husband's full name was -Joe H. Graves. We had one child, a boy, whose name is Arza Alexander -Graves. I have lived on this place I am on now every since I was -married, that was the same year Burlington Jct., Missouri, started. We -first bought forty (40) acres and paid twenty ($20.00) dollars for that, -then about two years later we bought the back eighty (80) acres and I -think we paid fifteen ($15.00) dollars for that. I worked in the fields -and helped pay for this land. I belong to the African Methodist -Episcopal Church in Maryville, Missouri. - -"When I was growing up and wanted a nice wool dress we would shear the -sheep, wash the wool, card it, spin it, and weave it. If we wanted it -striped we used two threads, we would color one by using herbs and -barks. We sometimes had it carded at a mill and sometimes we carded it -ourselves but when we did it the threads were short which caused us to -have to tie the thread often making more knots in the dress. In planting -corn in them days they broke up the ground, one layed off the rows, one -would go along and drop the corn or grain and if they wanted to plant -beans in with the corn one would go along and drop the seed. They -covered it over with a hoe and they cut the stalks with the hoe and -stacked up the stalks. The way they raised the corn after it came up -they took one horse and went on each side of a row and in the middle of -every row to plow the corn. It took three rounds on every row to get it -plowed. They used oxen sometimes to plow and nearly always used oxen to -plow up the ground. They cut the grain with the cradle and bound it with -their hands and shocked it up. They thrashed the grain with a hickory -stick by beating it out. Many times I have carried three big buckets of -water from one place to another, one in each hand and one balanced on my -head. My Master was not as bad as some Masters was to their slaves. One -time when I had over worked my Master said, "You have not had a currying -down for a long time, come over here," and he whipped me with a -cat-o'-nine-tails. This cat was made of nine small pieces of leather -fastened on to the end of the whip. Lots of times when they hit with the -cat it left nine stripes of blood. Mama's Master whipped his slaves for -past-time. I have got many whippings for being blamed for doing things -the Master's children did and I was blamed for it. One time when a -couple was married, me and other members of the family were walking down -the road and I was very careful not to kick up any dirt and to be very -nice to the couple but when we got home one of the Master's daughters -told that I was mean and that I kicked up dirt so that dust would get on -the lady's dress and I got the worst whipping I ever got in my life by -the Mistress and I still have the marks on my body, and when the Master -came I was carrying the vitales from the kitchen to the dining room -which was the living and bed room and when I went in I took the bread -and when I came back he was standing in the door and he told me what -they told him about me and I said I did not do it and if "Puss" said I -did she is a "Damned lying devil" and he dropped the switch and went and -talked to his daughter and gave her a whipping for telling the untruth. -That was the only time I ever swore. In a few days the bride came over -visiting and told them they had the sweetest little colored girl she was -so lovely and kind. We were never allowed to be idle, always doing -something and my work often was choring around to say I was doing -something. I have gathered the wool off the fences where it had been -caught off the sheep and washed it and used it to make mittens. I never -was sold and my Mama was sold only once but she was hired out many -times. We slept on what they called a bed, a tick filled with straw on -the bed. My Mama's Master had a child near my age and my Mama always -left me at the house with the Mistress and I nursed the Mistress, Mrs. -Crowdes, as well as her own child until one day the curtain, which was -used as a partition around a bed on which I lay near, caught on fire and -then my Mama always took me to the field with her and would lay me on a -pallet near the fence while she plowed the corn or worked in the field. -Stepfather and Mama often tended to their own tobacco and grain in the -moonlight which they could sell and have the money. One thing we could -go to church which was held in the school house. Sometimes they would -let me go out and play with the other children after the noon dishes -were washed and there wasn't anything else to do then. I often sewed -strips of cloth together to make carpet rags, there was always something -to do. Mama worked in the field and in the house too. They nearly always -kept a girl in the house. We did not have many mills and sometimes we -could not get to the mill and we would punch holes in a piece of tin and -rub the ear of corn across it to grate it for our use. Many times Mama -would work in the field all day and in the evening she would grate -enough corn for the family use the next day. The Masters had stores and -you had to go to that store and get your needs and when the month was up -you had nothing as it took all you earned to pay your bill." - - - - -Emily Camster Green - - - *Interview with Emily Camster Green,* - *Cape Girardeau, Missouri.* - -"My mammy wuz Celie Camster en my daddy wuz Jack McGuire. We lived out -in Bollinger County an' belonged to Massa George Camster. De white folks -had a big house, made o' logs, wid chinkins in 'tween en 'nen dobbed -over. Us cullud folks had little cabins an' we had good livin' dar. Ole -Massa an' Missus Patsy wuz mighty good to us. Eatin's? Lawd we had -everthin'--not de mess we has to make out wid now. - -"I fell to young Missie Janie an' wuz her maid an' when Missie Janie -married Mista Bradley I went with 'em down to Cha'leston in Mississippi -County. - -"Missie Janie an' her Mista Bradley rode in a buggy an' I sits behind. I -'member de fust time I seed de big ribber. Dar wuz a boat on it. I ain't -nebber seed a boat befo' an' I says, 'Oh! Miss Janie dat house gonna -sink.' She laf at me an' say dat a boat. Pore Miss Janie--dat Mista -Bradley made her believe he had a big plantation an lots o' money an -when we gits dar he warn't nuthin' but a overseer on de Joe Moore place. -Pore Missie Janie! she wuz so purty an' she had lotsa beaux--she coulda' -married rich but she jes tuk de wrong one. - -"We had good times fore we lef' de ole place, fore Ole Massa died. We -usta git together in de ebenin's. Dey'd say 'I's gon'a step over to de -udder cabin'--en word ud git aroun' an 'for' you knowd it dey'd be a -crowd. We allus said 'jest step over' no matter how far it wuz. Den some -er de women ud put in a quilt an' some ud git to cookin' an' bakin. Mmm! -de lassus cakes we used to have! An' den wen de quilt wuz finished an de -eatin done dey'd clean out de room an dance. Dem sho wuz good times. But -I 'members de las' dance we had. Ole Massa wuz sick. We's habbin' de -dance an' Aunt Mary wuz dar. She wuz a spiritualis' woman--you knows -whut a spiritualis is, don' you? Well, everybody wuz dancin' an' habbin' -a good time--Aunt Mary say, 'Hush! I's gonna ask is Ole Massa gonna git -well.' Den she say--'If Ole Massa gonna die, rap three times.' Den in a -minnit comes a loud blam! blam! blam! right across de house. Den we all -cry an' go home 'cause we knows Ole Massa's gonna die! - -"'Bout dat time my daddy die too an my mammy marry Levi Wilson. He -belong to Nelson Ellis an' when Ole Massa Ellis's daughter married -Beverly Parrot dey went to Texas an' tuk my step-daddy along. 'Cose he -never 'spected to see my mammy again an' he married a young woman down -dar. Atter de war, dey comes back up dar an' he seed my mammy but she -says, 'Go way. I libbed wid you sebben year an' nebber had no chillun by -you. Now you got a young woman an' she got chillun. You stay with her. I -won't bother you none.' - -"My mammy allus stayed wid Ole Missus Patsy. Ole Tom Johnson, de nigger -trader tuk her two brothers an' sent um to New Orleans. He usta libe in -dat big house dat wuz war de postoffice is now, an' he usta keep de -slaves he buy dar at he's house till he can send um down de ribber on de -boat. - -"One time a slave at a neighbor farm was workin' in de feel' an when he -comes in, in de ebenin's he's wife wuz gone an' de cradle wuz emty. He's -Massa done sold 'em. De ole man fell down on he's knees an' he begin -prayin' an he pray an' he holler 'Oh! nobody know but Jesus! Nobody know -but Jesus!' An' he kep' dat up a prayin' an a hollerin like dat. His ole -Massa hear him, an' it made him feel bad. De ole darky keep on a prayin' -an a hollerin, 'Nobody know but Jesus.' Ole Massa keep on a hearin' it, -till atter awhile, he git right down der on de flo' wid de darky an' he' -fess religion. - -"After Ole Massa George died, Ole Missus Patsy married Woodson Parrot -and went to his place in Scott County. Dey had a nice big home der an he -were a good man. When he lay dyin he wuz sick a long time an' dey wuz -allus some lodge men roun' him an my mammy wuz skeered of de men. De -nite he died, Ole Missus Patsy had been up wid him so much she wuz -sleepin--an he call out, 'Oh! Patsy! Oh! Patsy! Oh! Patsy!' three times -jes like dat. Mammy wuz skeered o' dem men an she wouldn't go in an wake -Ole Missus Patsy. Den ole Massa Parrot say, 'Oh! Patsy, I ain't nebber -made a prayer in my life an' here I'se dyin.' Ole Missus Patsy nebber -did forgive my mammy for not wakin' her till de day she died. - -"Miss Janie allus had to live on rented places. Mista Bradley warn't -smart an' he didn't have nuthin but she stayed with him an' done de bes' -she could. - -"We seed lotsa sojers cum by durin' de war, but dey nebber bothered us -much. De Ku Kluxers cum roun' sometimes but mostly to see dat darkies -stay whar dey belong. When de war wuz over I wanted to stay wif Missie -Janie but my mammy cum an' got me. We worked for a German family livin -on Jackson Hill. - -"I cud a been a spiritualis woman if I'd had a little education. I allus -had visions an' ud see thing but I nebber know'd whut dey mean. When I -tell my mammy she allus say, 'Hush chile, you allus a see'in things.' - -"My mammy's daid now a long time but she offen comes to see me. One -night I seed her carryin a bright light. She allus comes to see me when -I'se in trouble but I ain't seen her now for a long time." - - - - -Lou Griffin - - - *Interview with Mrs. Lou Griffin,* - *St. Louis, Missouri.* - -Mrs. Lou Griffin, a daughter of Minnie and William Gibson, is something -over ninety years old. She does not know her exact age. She tells the -writer she is one of a family of thirteen children and that her -grandmother had twenty-one children. She lives with a great nephew at -2935 Easton Avenue, St. Louis. She tells her story as follows: - -"People tells me not to tell nothing 'bout myself to folks like you what -asks me, 'cause you ain't going to give me nothing for it nohow, but -somebody somewhere pays you to gather up this stuff. So I's just gonna -tell you dis much, sister. Sure 'nough I was slave born. 'Fore I was big -enough to do nothing us chillun used to run about in de woods while de -old folks was working on de plantation. We git stole away by white folks -what wasn't our owners and sold I reckon, nobody knowed where de chillun -gone nor who got 'em. We know dis much, we didn't never see 'em any -more. - -"We just be out in de woods picking fruit and flowers. I know this -though, sister, after while, de Rebels got a heap of us. I heard 'em say -dey some times get fifty dollars for some of de black folks dey sold and -some big healthy ones brought one-hundred dollars. Course I don't know -how much money dey brought, I just know 'bout it. We use to go to de -church house. If we suited de overseer he let us go. If we didn't we got -lashed plenty. Dey lash you till you was forced to pray den dey whip you -like anything for prayin'. But God done stopped all that now. Dis heah -old Abe Lincoln come through our town. I guess you done heard 'bout him, -is you, honey? If you ain't, I'll tell you. He just come 'round to see -how de Rebs do de slaves. I gets so full thinkin' how de good Lawd fix -it for us. He come 'round when nobody's lookin' for him. Bye and bye he -says, fight for your freedom in de Yankee army instead of standing -'round here being sold and treated like beasts. - -"Ole Jeff Davis was a Rebel and he rode a fine horse. Abe Lincoln come -there, wid a mule. De slaves made up a song 'bout how old Abe Lincoln -got hold of Jeff Davis in de army and Abe Lincoln took and rode Jeff -Davis' big fine horse and Jeff Davis had to ride de mule. Abe Lincoln -was United States president and Jeff Davis was de fool. We often hear -tell of dem Yankees coming to our town a long time 'fore dey get there. -We know when dey reached us, 'cause dey run dem Rebs way from their own -place and take 'em themselves. I been all down in Arkansas, Louisiana, -Mississippi, North Carolina and everywhere, being hiked around by dem -Valentines, dat's de name of my mother's owners and mine too, for that. -I 'haved so I didn't git licked like some more did, yes indeed I did. De -bells would ring for day, sissy, and we had to get up and start right in -working, yes mam. I use to love to see 'em drill dem soldiers. Sure did. -I thank God it is all over now. I ain't going to tell you no more. Like -to have you stay awhile, but if you want just come back." - - - - -Louis Hamilton - - - *Interview with Louis Hamilton,* - *Fredericktown, Missouri.* - - _Never Sold His Vote_ - -"I is 90 years old and was born right dere in Whittenburg, Cape -Girardeau County, Missouri, across de creek. We was stayin' with -Greenvilles den. My father was named Nathan and my mother was Mary. She -died right after de war was over. My grandmother was born in West -Virginia and I had three brothers and three sisters. Dey is all dead but -me. My father drove an old ox team around dere hauling coal. He fought -in de war and come back and went right to work and den bought him a farm -back of Whittenburg and lived dere until he died. - -"De first work I done was on de farm. Den I worked at Mine la Motte, and -Buck Eye. Was a tie inspector and also worked in de car shop at Madison, -Illinois. On de farm I got $1 a day. In de mines I got $12 a week. In de -car shop I made about 40 cents a hour. I bought dis property here with -my money and have been on it for 18 years. I give $450 for dis property. -I've paid $11 taxes for eight or nine years and now pay $5 a year. De -master had a big farm of two or three hundred acres and had four or five -slaves. Sometimes my father would take me down dere in de woods to a -white picnic. After my father's first wife died he did not let us run -around much. We used to fight with de white kids but had no trouble with -de old folks. At Christmas time, man dey treated us with fun; eats of -all kinds, dat you could pack home. - -"When de war was over we moved across de creek to ourselves and my -father bought 25 or 30 acres. I felt like a new man when de war was -over. I stayed with my grandfather until I was 21 and got married in -Perry County when I was 32. I had 4 children and dey is all dead. My -wife has been dead about 14 years. I've lived 25 years in Fredericktown. -De young Negroes ain't no account as compared to when I was a boy. De -parents nowadays don't make dem work hard enough. Dey can sleep all day -if dey want to. Some of de young Negroes around here work in de shoe -factory. Some load ties. - -"Once when I was a baby, my sister was sitting by de fireplace rocking -me and she fell asleep and let me fall in de fireplace and I was burned -on de hand. Four of my fingers was burned and have never come out -straight. When I was a boy I did not know what a stove looked like. We -had dese old corded beds. Dere used to be a lot of wild hogs around dere -and dey would eat anything dey got hold of. We would put up ice from de -Mississippi River. It was over a foot thick. We wore home-made clothes -and did not buy no clothes. We wore copper-toed shoes called brogans. De -first time I voted was for Teddy Roosevelt. I been voting ever since. -Lots of dem have told me how to vote but I never sold my vote." - - - - -Fil Hancock - - - *Interview with Fil Hancock,* - *Rolla, Missouri.* - - _"Uncle" Fil Hancock_ - -The following interview, bristling with facts and vivid recollections -covering more than three quarters of a century was obtained recently by -a worker employed by the Federal Writers' Project in Missouri from -"Uncle" Fil Hancock, eighty-six year old Negro, living at Rolla, -Missouri. The old man's story, told as nearly as possible in his own -dialect runs thus: - -"I was born 1851, de 28th day of February. My granny come here with her -missus-Hancock--when dey brung de Cherokee Indian tribe here from -middlin' Tennessee, de time dey moved de Missouri Indians back to -Oklahoma, what dey called Indian Territory way back 'bout 135 or 140 -years ago. Our old missus maiden name was Riggs. My old master was -Scotch-Irish. A big, red faced man wid sandy hair, mostly baldheaded. Us -little niggers was scairt of him and run and hid when we see him coming. -He weren't 'lowed to whip us, 'cause he didn't own us. Our old missus -had eleven of us and he had twenty-one niggers of his own. And our old -missus wouldn't let him tech us. - -"We had to mind him though. But she done de whipping. My own mammy -whipped us good and proper--She used a razor strop, and shore poured it -on us. She was puny and sick most all de time. Dey said she had -consumption, now-days dey calls it T.B. But it was plain old consumption -in dem days. I 'member, she were so sick dat she were not able to hold -us an' whip us, and she made one of us little niggers push de other one -up to her bed while she whipped us. We took our turns in gittin' a -whipping. Poor old mammy, she loved us and wanted us to do right. We -never got a whipping 'ceptin' we needed it. Old granny, my mammy's -mother and old missus whipped us a little, an only wid buckbresh, jes' a -little 'roun' de ankles. All us little niggers was jes' like stairsteps, -one after de other. I got whipped plenty, but I needed it. - -"My ol' missus Hancock named me herself--called me Filmore Taylor -Hancock, after two presidents who took der seats in 1850. Ol' Colonel -Hancock was our master an' he was de richest man in Greene County, -Missouri, and owned more slaves than any man in Missouri. His wife, old -missus was born in 1804. My own granny on my mammy's side was born in -1805. My granny was given to missus, as her own de day she was born. -'Course old missus was only a year old den. Der was thirty-two of us -slaves on our old missus place, and eleven of us sprung from old granny. - -"We had five young missus. My young missus names were Winnie, Elizabeth, -Lucinda, Luella, and Tennessee. Dey was so rich and proud, dey wouldn't -look at any body to marry. Only two of 'em ever married. Dey was fine -ladies, but dey shore had me plumb spilt. Some of dem whipped me three -or four times, but I 'member how dey jes' breshed me a little roun' de -legs, and turn away and laugh a little. I can see now I needed more'n I -got. If I told a lie I got whipped for it, and old missus poured it on -if we lied. - -"I and de other two gals, my sisters and a brudder of mine--well, when -our mammy died, old missus took us down to her house, away from our -cabin, so she could look after us. Our old granny was de white folk's -cook. She helped look after us. We got to eat what de white folk did. Up -to de cabins where de other niggers was, had salt meat, cabbage, -'taters, and shortnin' bread three times a day. We all had plenty -vegetables we raised ourselves. Every Sunday mornin' our missus sent us -up a big tray 'bout three feet long, made of sycamore--and it full of -flour. Once a week we had hot biscuits. But me and Squire, my brudder -and my sisses, Mary and Margot had it a little better, we had what our -old missus had. I was ten years an' six months old when de war come up. - -"In '61, I see General Lyons, when he passed right by our house. All de -Union sojers had to pass by our house time of de war. We lived on the -main wagon road from Rolla to Springfield. Well child, Lordy me! dat's -funny for me to tell you how General Lyon look. It was a sight to see -him with them 'purties'! And we asked old missus what dat was, them -'purties' he had on his shoulders. She says to us chillun: 'He is de -general. All dem odder men got to mind him'. He was killed in dat battle -of Wilson Creek. Dey kept him in an icehouse in a spring, owned by a man -named Phelps. He lived west of Springfield. Dey keep General Lyon two -weeks, 'fore they brung him down dis-a-way. Dey shipped him out of Rolla -to Connecticut--dat's what I hear de ol folks says. Dat man Phelps was -our neighbor and later he got to be governor of Missouri in 1876. -Crittenden was first de Democratic governor in '73. - -"Old missus called us little darkies all up--and carried us down to de -wagon General Lyon's body was in, when dey was bringin' him back here. -And we looked at him and asked what was de matter. Old missus said 'He -was killed.' He was packed in ice in de wagon and de wagon had four -mules hitched to it. I wanted to know if he was de man who had dem -'purties' on his shoulders. She said 'Yes'. - -"I said, 'Did marse Bill and marse George and marse Jeff Hancock hep -kill him?' She said: 'Yes'. Marse Bill, marse George an' marse Jeff was -my young bosses, my old master's sons. Old missus didn't seem glad or -anything, jes' looked kinda sad. We asked her would he ever fight again. -She said, 'No'. I won't ever forget how General Lyon looked. He rode a -kinda gray-white horse when I first see him and looked so tall and proud -like. - -"De rebels held Springfield from 1861 till 1862, when General Freemont -come in and took it. Marmaduke and Price had de biggest armies of de -southerners, Freemont come sneaking in, wrapped his wagon wheels with -old blankets so dey wouldn't hear him coming, and he had a body guard of -three hundred. Marmaduke and Price was den in Springfield. Freemont come -'bout daybreak, and started shooting de town up. He got de town and held -it. - -"Marmaduke and Price drifted 'round to de Southeast part of de State and -went into Arkansas. Later dey had a three hour scrummage at Pea Ridge, -Arkansas. Either 62 or 63, I kaint 'member much, I was too little and -scairt to know. Being only ten or eleven years old. Dey was a man named -Finis McCrae, a rebel in de Marmaduke and Price Army, in de infantry. He -took sick some place in Arkansas. Dey brung him to us, we being rebels, -and keep him two weeks in our up-stairs, not letting any one know he was -dere. We kept him till he got better and he went back into de army and -fit some more. - -"I seen Marmaduke in person, when he was making his campaign for -governor, down in Cuba, Missouri. All de Union sojers stopped at our -house to get water. We had a runnin' stream that never did go dry. They -filled their canteens there. All us chillun fussed 'bout 'em takin' our -milk and butter outen de spring-house. Old missus keep all her milk and -butter and cheese in dere to keep it cool. When de Union sojers come by -our house to Rolla dey took so much of de water to fill dere canteens it -nearly took our spring dry. Took every thing we had in de -spring-house--milk, butter--everything. - -"I don't 'member how dey was dressed, but dey all had on sumpin' blue. -Uniforms I guess. Me and four more little darkies was one-half mile -offen de big road when dey passed, and got scared and run back to old -missus house and hid in de old barn loft all dat night. Old missus asked -us what we did for sumpin' to eat. We told her we bent de rye down in de -field and rubbed de grain out wid our hands and eat dat. She took us to -de house and give us sompin' to eat. De sojers was still passing de -house den. - -"In time of de Civil War we wouldn't come down to Rolla, we went south -to do our trading. We wasn't Union and Rolla was Union Headquarters. Old -Master was getting old den, he had been a colonel in some army or other -way 'fore de Civil War. - -"Lincoln issued 'green backs' 'long 'bout '61 or '62, after Stephen A. -Douglas goes up to Washington and tell Lincoln, after he got de -'nomination dat if he didn't get Jeff Davis and some of de leaders and -prosecute 'em, he was going to have war on his hands. Lincoln tells -Douglas to go back and tell Jeff Davis to lay dem guns down, dat in 90 -days he would 'low dem so much a head for dere niggers. Dat if dey would -free dem dey could be paid for so much a head, by taxation. But Lincoln -told dem dey would all have to come back together again same as before -like dey was. You see dese folks in de south had done got $8,000,000, -all dat ammunition and guns and things from England. Jeff Davis and dem -leaders wouldn't give it up. - -"De first issue of greenbacks was $175,000,000 and de next issue was -$250,000,000. We had been told all dis and I ask old missus if she -reckon we could whip dem 'blue bellied yankees'. I says: 'Dey ain't got -no money'. - -"We called de Union sojers--'Yankees' and our side was called de Gray or -de Rebels. It's 75 years, the 10th day of August, 1937, that General -Lyon was killed. - -"My boss--Hancock was de biggest slave holder in Missouri when de war -first come up. He settled four miles east of Springfield, Missouri. He -owned close to 1200 or 1500 acres of ground. From Springfield to -Strafford--east. We had 375 acres in cultivation--corn, oats, wheat, -rye, and clover was our main crops. - -"My daddy belonged to a man named Lou Langston. There is a railroad -station named for this same Langston. What was known as the 'Gulf Road.' -I took my mammy's white folk's name. They were as fine and good as -anybody. The first child old missus had was a boy, Bill Hancock. The -first child my old granny had (on my mammy's side) was a boy, named Joe. -Old missus gave granny's boy Joe, to her boy Bill, as a slave. You see -my old missus and my old granny was born a year apart demselves. - -"One time my old master Hancock, got mad at my uncle, who was a growed -up nigger. Old marse wanted to whip him. He tried to make my uncle put -his head twixt his (old marser's) knees. My uncle didn't offer to fight -him, but twisted him roun' and roun' trying to get his head out. He gave -one twist dat throwed old marse down to de ground. My uncle jumped and -run and jumped over de fence. My uncle did not belong to old marse but -to his son, Bill. But old marse sure got mad when my uncle run. So he -sold him to a man named Dokes--a nigger trader of dat neighborhood. -Dokes bought niggers and sold dem on de block in St. Louis. When Dokes -took my uncle away, one of our neighbors by de name of Fisher--up near -Strafford, gits on his horse and goes to Springfield and tells my young -boss, Bill, dat old man Hancock had sold Joe and Jane. Jane belonged to -Marse Hancock. Mister Fisher had only one colored man, and he told my -young boss, Bill, dat if he would buy both them niggers back, dat he -would buy Jane for his (Fisher's) colored man. He didn't have no woman -for him. - -"Old Dokes was on his way den to St. Louis with 'em. Bill and Fisher -started out, rode and caught up with dem near what is now known as Knob -View, Missouri. When dey come in sight of Dokes, Bill stopped and -dropped back. Fisher goes up to de wagon, stopped Dokes and asked him -what he would take for Joe and Jane. They was settin' up in the wagon -handcuffed together. I think it was a thousand dollars or fifteen -hundred dollars he asked for both. Den Fisher beckoned to Bill Hancock -to come on. Bill come up and paid Dokes what he asked. Dokes was to take -'em back, hisself, to dere own neighborhood. - -"When marse Bill rode up, my uncle said, 'Take these handcuffs off me'. -Mr. Dokes took them off. My uncle jumped out of de wagon and run up to -de big mule my young boss was settin' on, he reached up an' took Bill, -his marster off dat mule so quick and lay him down on de ground. He -commenced to love and kiss him on side of his head. He picked him up and -sat marse Bill on his mule again and said, 'I know marse Bill wasn't -goin' to let me be sold.' He takes him off his mule again and lay him -down two times more and keep lovin' and kissin' him, he was dat happy. - -"But old marse Hancock, jes' wouldn't let Joe live on his place again, -no more. He was dat mad. It made him so mad to think Joe had turn him -over when he had his legs twixt his knees. But young marse Bill took Joe -to Springfield and hired him out to a blacksmith by de name of Lehr. He -got forty dollars a month for him. Joe stayed dere till de Civil War. -Old master let Joe come to de house to see his mother, my old granny, -once in a while, but never to live. - -"Old man Fisher bought de colored woman from marse Bill, for his colored -man, and paid him as he could. Our white folks had plenty of money to -get any thing they wanted. - -"I first come to Rolla in 1869 and stayed till 1870. Then dere was only -one brick house in Rolla, standin' where the Edwin Long Hotel now -stands. Den I left and went to Cuba and stayed dere and at Salem til' -1882. I come back to Rolla when de Crandel House was built, where de -Rolla Hospital now is located. I started a barber shop here under the -Crandel House basement. I have been here and at Salem ever since 1882, -Rolla my headquarters. - -"If I can leave enough when I die, I want to be buried at the Union -Graveyard in Greene County, Missouri, where my mammy is buried since -three years before the Civil War. My daddy was buried there in 1863. - -"When I was young, we didn't know nuthin' 'bout churches. Us kids never -got to go no place 'less de old niggers took us. And dey wouldn't take -us. De older ones had church out in de brash, under de shade trees. - -"I kin 'member one of my cousins carryin' me pick-a-back, one time, -three miles to church. Dey only had church in de summer time, or meeting -dey called it. It was allus in de woods. We dassen't be ketched wid a -book to read or to try to be educated. Course every one wasn't treated -dat-a-way. Sometimes de niggers would have dancin', if de bosses or -masters gave dem passes. De passes read sumpin' like dis: 'Let my nigger -file pass and repass to such and such a place'. - -"I 'member once, my missus bought me a pair of high top red boots. My! I -was proud. In dem days, we went barefoot most all year round. But my -missus tried to make us happy on Christmas. I put dem boots on and I -pranced round and round jes' to hear dem squeak. I done thought dat was -de purtiest noise I ever heard. I asked old missus, could I go to old -Massy's house. He were our neighbor, 'bout half mile--but it were dark. -Old missus said, 'Hain't you scared to go?' I say, 'No'. I went up de -road, my boots squeaking and squeaking. Didn't have time to be -scared--listenin' to dem boots. - -"Aunt Rachel, my own aunt, lived at Massy's house. You see Masseys was -dere name and dey was white folks but we say Massy's house. I wanted my -old aunt to see my new boots. When I got dere I called my aunt to come -see my boots. She come and say, 'Hain't you scared to come here all -'lone'. I say, 'no'. I twisted and turn, round and round so she could -hear 'em squeak. But when it come time to go home, I got plum' scared. -Aunt Rachel had to take me. She took me where I could see our house. My! -How old missus laughed when she found I had to be brung home. She say, -'I told you, you be scared to come alone'. - -"In dem days no nigger got boots till he was big and able to work for -'em. I was old missus pet and she plum' spilt me. I allus got more'n de -odder niggers got. Boys had cotton shirts and de gals had cotton -dresses. - -"You know it's a funny thing, de white folks took everything from us -niggers, even try to take our old songs and have dem on de radio. We -niggers say 'De white folks take everything, dis, dat, an' t'other, but -what we got is jes' natural borned to us.' - -"I knocks a tamborine jes' like de Georgia niggers played a tambourine, -'fore de Civil War. Dem Georgia minstrels was taken over to England to -perform 'fore de Queen Victoria, way 'fore Civil War. Folks from way up -East got 'em and took 'em. Dey ain't many plays like dem no more." - -"Uncle" Fil, as he was familiarly known in Rolla, played for the Folk -Festival in Rolla and received so much applause, he had to be helped off -the stage. He is exceedingly active. He plays the old tambourine, (he -owned so many years) under and over his legs, behind his head, bouncing -it and catching it, never losing the rhythm an instant. - -He is tall and erect, and has a remarkable memory, especially for dates, -names and places. He loves children, and usually has a pocket full of -pennies for the babies. His home is a one-room hut (plain shed building) -back of the Post Office on Ninth Street, Rolla, Missouri. He lives alone -and has no living relatives. The people of Rolla aid him with gifts. - -Uncle "Fil's" favorite old spiritual is below. He says: "Dis song, I'm a -tellin' you, is de truf." - - Dis Is My Buryin' Groun' - - Ask my Lord for mercy, - Good Lord, gimme religion, - Good Lord, gimme me a heart to b'lieve, - Dis is de buryin' groun'. - Amen, Hallelujah. Dis is de buryin' groun'. - - Tell your mother, - Tell your father, - Dis is de buryin' groun', - Tell all your neighbors, - Tell all your neighbors chillun, - Dis is de buryin' groun'. - -Uncle Fil says, "Niggers jes' makes dey own verses, jes' naturally comes -to us, and we make our own rhyme as we go." - -One of the humorous songs, a favorite of his, goes: - - You, by word, now all we go, - In fact we spoke both high and low, - In the house and out of doors, - Ebening in the baby's nose. - When I was young an' in my prime, - I'se a countin' courtin' them gals, - Most all de time. - Now I'm old and you will see, - I'm not as young as I used to be. - Now when the elephant moves aroun' - The music begins to play, - Oh, the boys aroun' dat monkey's cage - I'd better keep away. - Rock the cradle John, - Rock the cradle John, - Many a man is rockin' another man's son - When he thinks he's rockin' his own. - - - - -Dave Harper - - - *Interview with Dave Harper,* - *Montgomery City, Missouri.* - - _Dave Is Cardinal Fan_ - -Dave Harper, a former slave, had just tuned in on the baseball game when -the interviewer arrived for he is an ardent Cardinal fan and, although -he was extremely courteous, he never missed a play in that game. He was -not at all reticent about telling of his life though plainly curious to -know the purpose of the interview and just a bit skeptical as to its -final use. Dave, who now lives in Montgomery City, Mo., has been a -gardener for years, always having the earliest and finest vegetables as -well as supplying others with plants for resetting. - -"I'll be glad to tell you anything I remember," Dave said in reply to -the request for something of his life story. "Col. Harper was my master. -We lived northwest of town (Montgomery City). I was born in Montgomery -County and lived dere all my life. Col. Harper had 25 or 30 slaves; dere -was lots of money wrapped up in dem." - -Here Dave reflected for a moment and shook his head sadly at the amount -of cash invested in humans and then continued. - -"He bought me when I was six years old. I was born eighty-seven years -ago next January, down on Clear Fork, southwest of Danville, near -Mineola, 'bout half mile from Capt. Callaway's grave. No'm, it don't -seem like dey could have found enough dirt dere to cover his body. It -sure is rocky dere. Did you ever read Nat Sharp's history? It says dat -one of Capt. Callaway's men was buried down dere across de field. - -"I've seen slaves go through Danville in droves like cattle. Dey was -chained together and dey walked 'em to St. Louis to de nigger yard. One -mother give out. De man in charge made her give her baby away, she -couldn't carry it no further. Someone near Danville raised de baby. - -"I was sold when I was six years old to Clark Whitesides's father to -nurse Clark. My mother was sold down on de Missouri River. I'll tell you -'bout dat. De Fords moved to Danville from Virginia. Dere was several -brothers in together in de nigger business. Dey brought my mother to -wait on Mrs. Ford and carry her her coffee. She married and had three -children. De nigger traders from Virginia run an attachment to get -possession of my mother. Den on de way back he took cholera and died. De -case was in court when de war come up. Mr. Ben Sharp had de money, he -died and dat ended it. I was sold by Thos. J. Powell, de sheriff. Mother -was to be sold. Kit Talbot bid on her and de baby. She cried so hard -'cause she wanted to live with me dat Dr. Sharp paid de bid and got her. -I used to go to see her real often. - -"We was fed just moderate. Dere was fifteen hands. When dey come in at -noon, dey ate from de big old kettle where de old colored woman had -cooked de food. De next morning after he bought me, de boss carried me -to de old woman and told her to take care of me. Dat morning de kettle -was full of spare ribs and de people fished dem out with sticks. I -didn't see no knives or forks. When dey asked me why I didn't get -something to eat, I asked 'bout dem and a table where I could eat. De -overseer just cried. - -"De old lady took care of de children while de mothers worked. De oldest -one never went to de field. She just looked after de little ones. One -overseer was colored. He was an uncle of 'Big Nig' dat works at de -hotel. We was fanning out wheat and one of de children was raking out de -wheat. He talked back to de overseer who struck him. Dere was a -singletree under de edge of de cloth. De master picked up de singletree -but didn't strike de overseer, he backed off. Col. Harper raised oodles -of tobacco. Dere were 16 to 17 hundred pounds to de hogshead. He raised -15 to 20 hogsheads. - -"My mother-in-law was from Memphis. One day dey went to church and de Ku -Klux Klan came in and beat de people over deir heads with pistols. De -people went out de doors and windows. Dey could just blow a horn and de -Ku Klux Klan would come from all directions. - -"I was sold for $715. When de freedom come, I said, 'Give me $715 and -I'll go back.' Col. Harper just gave me a quarter to buy my dinner. -After de freedom, I worked in wheat harvest all season for $.75 a day. I -worked for a week and my mammy told me to bring her some bacon. When de -man paid me, I spent it all for a side of bacon. I felt mighty proud to -take dat to her. Bacon was $.50 a pound. I stayed at Dr. Sharp's where -mother worked and done chores. Later I made rails. Dey paid me $14 a -month for cutting rail timber. I was paid at de postoffice and took de -money home and gave it to mammy. - -"Col. Harper's wife was Gen. Price's niece and Col. Harper was a -recruiting officer for Gen. Price. Young men came dere to join de -southern army. Dey could always get a horse. De women stayed dere all de -time to make de suits for de soldiers. De Union soldiers tried deir best -to kill Col. Harper. - -"One time I saved his life. Dey was going to kill him, 'bout 75 or 100 -men on horses. I warned de Colonel two hours before dey got dere. Dis is -how it happened. Col. Harper gave me de first day of Christmas to go to -see my mother. Us children went out in de woods playing and when we come -back de yard was all cut up with horses hoofs. Dr. Sharp put me on my -horse and told me to tell Col. Harper dis message, dat 'dere was so many -soldiers dat you might get hurt, you can come again some other time.' I -told Col. Harper and he left. I didn't see him again until I was cutting -wheat. - -"My mistress lived dere for some time without any menfolks 'round 'cept -de slaves. Dere was a horse kept dere on purpose so I could come to town -every day for de mail. After a while, my mistress and her daughter went -to Jarod Harris's to stay. Den I went to Harris's every morning for de -mistress orders and to Montgomery each afternoon for de mail. I took de -mail to de camp at night. Dat was Bill Anderson's camp over in Callaway -County. Dey moved dat camp pretty often but I found it. One time de -bushwhackers came to burn de depot but Col. Harper had it full of -tobacco and wheat so dey didn't burn it. - -"Young Billy Mathis was a lieutenant. He used to come to see mistress -almost every day and bring her messages. Once a gang of blue coats was -coming down de road. He got on one of mistress' horses and she told me -to go 'long and bring de horse back. We went down through de woods with -de bullets whistling through de air and cutting off de limbs of de -trees." - -Dave had apparently studied about the voodoo doctors and their wiles for -a question as to conjure doctors brought a quick response: - -"We call dem 'two headed Negroes'. You know dat if he could do any -tricks he would keep dem from whipping him or selling him and dey -couldn't do dat or dey would have done it long time ago. Tear open a -pillow and sometimes dere is a mat of feathers. Sometimes dey puts -things under de door step but I don't pay no 'tention to it. Dey is some -dat thinks dere is something to it. - -"Mother used to tell a tale 'bout when she was a little girl. Her mother -went to frolics but her father went to bed, he was always tired after -his day's work. One night my mother saw a woman come to her father's bed -and rub her hand over his head. It didn't wake him up. De next day he -took sick and soon died. I don't believe in hoodoo doctors but it is -like de blood hounds can run and tree a man but if you can't find de -goods it don't count. - -"I worked in de hay harvest for $.50 a day. Common domestic for shirts -was $.50 a yard. It took six yards to make one shirt, dat was a week's -work. We lived on chickens. My mother raised a whole camp meeting of -chickens. Dere never was a better white man dan Dr. Sharp. When I -married I had four head of horses and three mules. I owed for one team -of horses. I took typhoid fever in August and was in bed until November. -Dr. Sharp and Dr. Bodine knew something was de matter but dey didn't -know what it was. When de note come due, I got on a horse and rode to -Dr. Sharp's. He wanted to know what I was doing on dat horse. I told him -'bout de note and he said, 'Hum, dat's what's been bothering you. Don't -you get off dat horse! I help you den you get back home and go to bed -and stay dere!' He just wrote a check for $90, I had already paid $300. -After I got well, I sold a span of mules to Joe McCleary and put de -check in de bank for Dr. Sharp. Dat was to pay him for de note and -taking care of me dat summer and fall. - -"I was in de railroad home guards during de war. We had to keep de -people from tearing up de railroads. I fought Bill Anderson's men many a -time. Seems sort of queer when I used to take dem de mail but we kept -dem from burning de railroad bridges. I served for 'bout six months near -Macon." - - - - -Clara McNeely Harrell - - - *Interview with Clara McNeely Harrell,* - *Cape Girardeau, Missouri.* - -"We libbed way off 'en de backwoods, six mile tuther side o' Jackson, -near Fruitland, and Ah's feared dey ain't much Ah ken tell yuh. My ole -Massa wuz John McNeely. Ah don' rightly member mah ole Missus McNeely -but when she die, ole Massa marry young Missie Harries fum down tow'ds -de ribber. De white folks has a fine big white house an we'ens had a -little log house. Dey wuz lotsa nut trees roun' dere an in de fall o' de -year we'ens usta gather lotsa nuts--hicker' nuts, walnuts, an' dey wuz -hazel nuts too. - -"My Mammy's name?--les' see now--dey calls her Minnie--yes dat's it, -Minnie. Youh see mah mind ain't so clear but when Ah talks 'bout 'em dey -kinda comes back tuh me. Mah pappy's name wuz John Mitchell and he -belong to a neighbor. I'se little and didn't hab much work to do. Jes -chores, like heppin' to carry in wood and sech like, but mos'ly I'se -jes' playin' an' tom-boyin' aroun'. - -"Ole Massa had three boys at went off to war--Dey wuz Ab, an' Bob' an' -Jack. We nebber seed no fightin' roun' our way but sometime we heard de -cannon fum Cape. One time dey wuz lotsa sojers cum pass our place an dey -had lotsa wagons an' things. Ah ain't nebber seed so many men an' I'se -plum scared to death, but dey nebber bother none. - -"We had big fields o' wheat an cahn an sich, but mah mammy didden work -in de fiel', she spin an she weave. Ah could spin too. Ah's fill de -quills and Ah'd hep her thread de loom. De loom stood out on de big -porch and Ah kin jes see her sittin dar. She'd push de thread through -tuh me an' den Ah'd ketch it and pull it through an han it back tuh her. - -"When de war wuz over, Ole Massa call tuh me an' he say 'Clara, you know -de war is over'--an Ah say 'Whar wuz it?' Ah nebber know'd nuthin 'bout -de war. - -"No'm, Ah don' know nuthin 'bout ghosts an sich like, but when Ah dies -Ah specks to go to Hebbin an' Lawd! Ah's gonna sit all day an' shout an' -sing, and clap mah han's an' stomp mah feet! Oh! Lawd! Dat's gonna be a -happy time." - -Clara McNeely Harrell, probably 80 or 82 years old lives in hollow--no -street number west from Washington School, Cape Girardeau, Mo. - - - - -Joe Higgerson - - - *Interview with Joe Higgerson,* - *Sedalia, Missouri.* - *(Written by Geo. K. Bartlett, Kansas City,* - *from F.C. of Kathleen Williams.)* - - _How Did Uncle Joe Get Home?_ - -Living at 410 West Pettis Street, Sedalia, is Joseph Higgerson, a -pensioned Negro soldier of the Civil War, who can look back through the -long vista of years and visualize slave life in Missouri, when the -institution of slavery was at its most thriving period. - -He was born a slave on a farm near Boonville, Missouri, in 1845 if his -claim of being 92 years old in the summer of 1937, is correct. - -He is somewhat bent and withered and his appearance of great age is -accentuated by white patriarchal whiskers below the chin, while his -cheeks are clean shaven; a style much in vogue during the life time of -Horace Greeley. - -His home, a little, four room, frame cottage, with its tiny front porch -set close against the picket fence enclosing the lot, mirrors somewhat -the deterioration age has placed upon its occupant. Both house and fence -are weather beaten, gray from age and lack of paint. - -"Could you and would you tell about slavery days?" he was asked. - -"Yes Ma'am," he courteously and smiling replied, the smile revealing -big, strong teeth. "Yes, indeed. Would you all step in the house and -set? I am so happy to have company." - -He selected the dining room, which is also the comfortably furnished -living room, as the place to "set and talk". In this room is an oak -dining table, chairs and a china closet, through the glass doors of -which may be seen attractively decorated dishes, some of them of very -old pattern. There is also an old fashioned combination desk and book -case, and a chest of drawers. The windows are adorned with curtains and -drapes of good quality. - -The clean condition of the interior was a revelation of a 92 year old -Negro man's desire and ability to keep house, and keep it clean. He -lives alone, his wife having died many years ago. - -There is in the appearance of this ancient Negro with shoulders now -bowed; the dark brown skin, extending across the bald head; the large -nose; immense teeth; shaven cheeks below which a mat of white whiskers -encircle the throat, like the ruff on a condor's neck; there is in his -appearance that which stamps him at once as the living bridge between -the present day's civilization and a dim past; the knowledge of which -exists today in the memories of but few persons. - -As he talked, strange sights, scenes and cultures were told, sometimes -with words that have changed much in meaning. - -As his mind pictured the scenes of those old days, this primitive -blending of both Indian and Negro races, at times unconsciously reverted -to the primitive sing song recitative chant of his ancestors, -particularly when narrating his outstanding pleasant memories. - -This is his story: - -"Old man Higgerson was my mastar. We lived on a farm and dere was a big -family of us. I is the only one left. The farm laid just below the -Lamine and Missouri Rivers, and I can't tell exactly where it was. -Everybody called us 'free niggahs'--cause Higgerson slaves was treated -so good. Yes, ma'am. My mammy lived to be 80 years old--and didn't have -a gray hair in her haid. She was part Black Hawk Indian,--and I show it -in me too." - -Then as his thoughts raced back to slavery days, the pictures of youth -crowded thick and fast, and he burst forth into a half chanted -description of the panorama of his memories. "I've seen hundreds of -Indians pass thru the country, on foot. Boss man let' em have a shack -overnight. Next mawnin dey set out on foot, and take up de road, one -behind the othar. Yes, suh! Just wrapped in a blanket one behind the -othar. Winter and summer, and barefoot too!" - -Then he told of game and game ways. - -"Yes suh! I done seen wild deer hop ovar fences, and hundreds of wild -turkeys. We used to build turkey pens and dig a trench, put feed in dere -and covar it ovar wid bresh and de turkeys would come to feed, and we -would trap' em. Yes, ma'am, an I done seen 100 to 150 wild turkeys in a -flock. I has dat! Lots of wild pigeons, too. I has seen a thousand geese -flyin' over in the early mornin'. Then I've trapped quail too, in rail -pens, built ten feet square. Yes, suh! - -"But listen!--slaves couldn't shoot; was a law agin it in slaves times; -no slave could own or shoot a gun. We couldn't shoot game. An' dat come -dis way. President Jackson say, 'Keep books and guns outa slaves' hands -if you want to keep 'em slaves'." - -Joe Higgerson chuckled a little with a glint of humor in his eyes and -changed the subject. - -"Everybody made whiskey in dem days, had little 'stilleries all over the -country, made apple and peach brandy. Good too. One day I was sent to a -neighbor's for brandy. I took a little taste and walked on. Den I took -anoder little taste, and walked on. Den I took anoder little taste and -sot down de jug. Den I took anoder little taste, and so on and so on. -Pretty soon I looked up, and I nevar did know how I got to whar I'se -gwin ter. Nobody ever say anything about it or tell me nuffin! I guess -somebody carry me whar I'se gwin ter." - -He was asked if he ever remembered seeing slaves sold at Boonville. - -"Yes, ma'am!" he exclaimed. "Why down at Boonville, woman and a baby was -put up to be sold, and de buyer he want de woman, but he don't want de -baby, so they separated 'em, and was gettin' ready to put 'em on de boat -for Noo Orleans, and ship 'em down de river, and de woman she ran back -to kiss de baby goodbye, and de tradar picked up a whip and cracked it -and shouts, 'A bellerin' cow will soon forget its calf'. She was sold -down de river and nevar saw de baby again. Now dat was sad." He paused -and then resumed. - -"One tradar, name of Henry Moore, he used to handcuff all the niggahs -together till time to put 'em on de boat for Noo Orleans. Dey always -carried whips and they'd crack dem to see how far de darkies could jump. -Yes, Suh!! Yes, Suh!!! Deed they did!!!" - -This reminiscence tickled him mightily and he laughed heartily at -thoughts of the capers the negroes cut when the whip cracked. - -"An I remembers one boat load. Boat load got as far as Cairo, Illinois, -and lots of de darkies jumped overboard and was drowned." - -"Were the overseers on the plantations Negroes or whites?" - -"Overseahs, white," Higgerson replied, "Overseahs white. A darky was the -niggah driver. Darkies didn't ever get to go to the big house where the -planter lived. De niggah driver reported to the overseah, and the -overseah reported to the boss. - -"Now this is the way with me," Higgerson continued. "My father, who was -also my boss, he kept a store, and I went to de store to take care of de -children, cause de boss done send for me. Well, one time when the wah -was on, some Federal soldiers come and done scared me so bad I forgot -all about de chile and run home, and de soldiers burned de bridge, you -had to cross befo' you got to de store. So after dat de ole man run a -boat across." - -Hoping to get some idea of how Christmas was celebrated among the -Negroes on the farms and plantations the aged man was asked what he -remembered of Christmas, in slavery times. - -"One Christmas I never goin' to forget", he replied. - -"Jes before Christmas lots of people came to de store to buy and de -groun' was all covered wid snow. An de man what run de store was getting -ready to close up, cause it was getting dark, and close at dark a man -come and wanted in and de store keeper wouldn't let him in. An it got -later and later, and by an by Joseph, dats me, was sent to de store to -find why de storekeeper ain't come home yet and Joseph went to de store, -and looked in and saw de old man on his back, his throat cut wid de -blood runnin' all over de floor and $1,400 dey knowed he had--gone. Dere -was whiskey and blood runnin' all over de floor. Whiskey was cheap dem -days; good whiskey, too. - -"When they set the niggahs free, the boss man come out and read de -papers to 'em sayin' dey was free. And I went to Boonville and joined de -Union Army, November 23, 1863. I served in de 25th Corps, Second -Division under General Whitsell. I was in de last battle of de war at -Palmetto Ranch, Texas, on de Rio Grande, just 36 miles from de Gulf. -When I was discharged from de army to go home, I thought--why I have no -home, where shall I go? Den I decided to go back to Boonville. All my -family was scattered. - -"But I was lucky. Someone had started to build a shack, and had not -finished it. I got permission to finish it and picked up building -material here and dere, and made it into a home. I never been without a -home since. My wife and I lived together 61 years. She is gone now." - - - - -Delia Hill - - - *Interview with Delia Hill,* - *St. Louis County, Missouri.* - *(Written by Grace E. White,* - *St. Louis, Mo.)* - - _Smoked 'Em Upside Down_ - -The subject of this sketch is Delia Hill, over 90 years old. She lives -at 1338 Argus Street, St. Louis County, Missouri. - -Delia Hill is a good natured, well preserved old lady. She is quite -tall, medium in size, dark complexion and her hair is almost entirely -white. She is very neat in her quaint, frame three room cottage. She -shares her home with a widowed companion who appears to be well in her -50's but is able to work. Delia Hill's story follows: - -"I was born in Cold Water, Mississippi more dan 90 years ago but don't -know jes' how old I is. My first owner's name was Marse John Hawkins and -he had a big mill. He had me and my mother with 14 other chillen, Aunt -Ellen and her 8 chillen, and Aunt Tilda with all her chillen. I don't -know how many Aunt Tilda had. Anyhow Marse John owned every one of us. -Later on he sold me to Marse Dave Stafford, a circuit rider. I got a -scar on my eye today whar de ole overseer throwed a fork at me cross de -table, 'cause I went to sleep, I was so tired while fanning flies off -him while he's eatin'. I had to fan flies every meal time with a fly -brush. They worked me so hard, I'd just go on to sleep standin' up. Dat -old overseer was a mean old devil any how. Well when old Marse come home -from de circuit ridin' I told him 'bout it, and he fired dat overseer -right then and told him if my eye went out, he would look him up and -kill him. I never seed him anymore. - -"Dey sold us niggahs so bad down dere where I come from, dat when I was -little I got sold from my mother and she never found me till after de -war in 1871. Was we glad to see each other? I say we was. I was raised -up hard, honey. I can count de winters I ever even had shoes on my poor -feet. When Marse Dave bought my mother he only bought her and 6 us -chillun. He was fairly nice to niggahs, but he didn't have as big a -drove of 'em as de other plantation owners, but child we could hear -niggahs hollen' every night on different plantations all around us from -lashings dey gittin' from dere old overseers and masters too, for dat -matter. - -"My owner raised mostly cotton and corn, my mother wove all de clothes -we wore, she even done all de spinning. During de Civil War, my old Miss -use to hide us niggahs in de woods to keep de Yankees from seein' us. -Dey pass through our place and got most all our stock just de same and -all dey wanted to eat besides. But dey never found a one of us. After -dey pass by we all go on back home. - -"Dey sent us to church reglar and de preacher say to us, any you all see -anybody stealin' old Miss chickens or eggs, go straight to old Miss and -tell her who 'tis and all about it. Any one steal old Marse hogs or -anything belong to old Marse, go straight to him and tell him all about -it. Den he ask us, what your daddy bring home to you when he come, and -what he feed you chillun at night. We scared to death to tell anything -'cause, honey, if we did de niggah get a killin, and our mammy tie up -our feet and hang us upside down by our feet, build a fire under us and -smoke us, scare us plum to death. We swear mammy goin' to burn us up. -Lord, child, dat was an awful scare. Yes, mam, it was. De old preacher -told us go on work hard, tell old Miss and old Master de truth and when -we die God going let us in heaven's kitchen and sit down and rest from -all dis work we doin' down here. - -"We believe dat den. We didn't know no better, honest we didn't, honey. -Our old Miss used to tell us, I want all my niggers to always tell de -truth. If dey kill you, die telling de truth. But bless your soul, our -mammy done smoked 'nough of us up side down, to not tell dem white folks -nothin', a lie, nor the truth. No sir'ree. Who want to get smoked up -likely to burn up hanging there as not. Now ain't dat so? No, sir, tell -dem white folks, dey find out anything, they jes' find out by -themselves, dat's it. I never did read or write. I been married three -times. My last husband I married October 31, 1901 and moved right out -here in dis house November 6, 1901, been here ever since. My husband -been dead now 18 years. My children all died while dey was babies. I had -six children. I wear glasses sometimes, but I praise God I can see good -without glasses. - -"De government gives me a pension and I git along fairly middlin'. Since -peace been declared I made my living doing laundry work and cooking. I -nursed right smart in Memphis. My mother died in 1893 here in St. Louis. -Her name was Eliza Mullin, but I never did know how old she was. She -didn't neither. I am a Baptist and go to church reglar as I kin, but I -suffer so hard with indigestion. I can't go no place much. Guess dat's -'bout all I can remember worth 'membering, hope it helps de book out." - - - - -Louis Hill - - - *Interview with Louis Hill,* - *age 78, Farmington, Missouri.* - -"I's borned on October 13, 1858 on the southeast side of Farmington, -Missouri. My muthuh, Rose Hill, was borned in Virginia. She kum ta -Missouri as a girl an frum dat time on she wuz a slabe fur John Hill, -our boss. She worked thar till our freedom. Our family had three boys, -Peter, William, and me an two girls, Sallie and Malinda. We bunked up in -a cabin with one room. All us kids ate on da flo frum da same plate an -da biggest dog got da mos. We generally wore a straight slip like a -nightgown an hit fastened round the neck. (In the old South boys were -dressed in this fashion until about ten years old and were called -"shirttail boys".) Tak dis off an we war naked. - -"The ole lady, the wife ob da Boss was da devil's sister. Her name was -'Whip'. She beat da ole folks mor'n tha kids. She used tha cowhide an we -got a lickin' whether we did anythin' or not. We had ta git up early an -after given supper we war put ta bed an did not 'pilfer' round. We had -ta go on Sunday ta the Boss' Church, tha Carmelite or Christian Church. -Ma muthuh wuz no han ta tell big yarns an so I know no ghost stories. We -wuz raised very sensible. Tha white folks did not help us ta read an -write. I learned that after we war free. I never did go ta school. Our -games was 'Wolf on tha Bridge', an 'King-Kong-Ko.' We always had ta be -doin' somethin', even if it war pickin' up kindlin'. - -"I member when Price's army kum thro here in '64 or '65 on their way ta -Pilot Knob. I wuz 'bout six or seben years ole. I an ma sister had bin -down ta the white childr'n school ta take them dinner. We had ta bring -tha basket bak an we sat down in tha corner ob da graveyard ta eat whut -wuz left in da basket. Da graveyard was nex to da Fredericktown road and -jus across frum our house. All at onc't I heard the mos' turrible noise -an saw soldiers kum up da road. We war sure scared. We jumped up, ran -cross da road, jumped over da fence an begun ta tak out fur da house. Da -soldiers laughed an said somethin. One soldier on a horse kum up ta de -fence, tore off da top rail, an with his horse jumped ober da fence, an -took out after us, but he nebber cud catch us. We wuz sho runnin'. I wuz -carryin' da basket and if I had a throwed it down we would a showed that -soldier some runnin'. Da soldier turned his horse round but we went -straight to da house to da Missus. She say dat dey was only havin' a -good time an would not hurt us. We stood at da house an looked, an it -took 'bout all afternoon fur da soldiers to pass. Thar war horses, -wagons and cannons. Da soldiers durin' da war took all da Boss' horses -away an he had only a yoke ob oxen lef. - -"After da freedom we all had ta get out an work. We had a big family. I -work'd at da lead smelter at Mine La Motte in 1872 an work'd thar fur -six years. I made $2.50 a day an dat was good wages then. I batched -thar. I larned ta read at Mine La Motte when a white man taught me in -evenin's at da mine between shifts. Afterwards I work'd in Bonne Terre -at da smelter but got lead colic an quit thar. - -"I think slavery wuz a curse on human nature. I believe in nobody bein' -in bondage ob no kind. Da Almighty wuz not a goin' ta let slavery las' -much longer. You know whut He did about da people in Egypt." - -(Note--Louis Hill lives in a very nice home. He is a quiet negro, and -except for a short time, has spent his entire life in Farmington. He -receives an Old Age Pension. I did not inquire about his marriage, for, -from knowledge I have gained, he lives with a colored woman to whom he -is not married.) - - *Interview with Louis Hill,* - *Farmington, Missouri.* - - _He Swapped Liquor For Lessons_ - -How he traded liquor for lessons in reading, writing, and arithmetic is -one of the interesting facts of his younger life recalled in an -interview recently obtained from Louis Hill, an ex-slave, now living in -Farmington, Missouri. - -Louis believes that the government should have made some provision for -the aid of the Negroes during the early struggle following their -emancipation. - -Regarding the part which he takes in politics, Louis declares that his -invariable rule is to "look over de field and vote for what he thinks is -de best timber." - -The story of his experiences as given to the interviewer is told as -closely as possible in his own words which follow: - -"I was too young to know what to expect from freedom. My mother picked -up and left de white folks in de night and took us kids with her. Dat -was after we was free but dey wouldn't let her get away in de daytime -very handy. Dey did not pay my mother anything after she was free. In -dem days kids didn't question de old folks like they does now, so I -didn't find out much. Dere was two sisters, two brothers and myself what -left dat night with my mother. We all had some bundles, and when we left -de old mistress in de dark we went to some neighbors several blocks -away. We didn't have to go far away 'cause dey could not force you to go -back after we was free. But my mother did go back and work for de -mistress a good while but she got paid den. We stayed here for quite -awhile and den went up to Valle Mines. - -"I piddled around and hired out for first one and den another and did -what a kid could do. When you earned any money dem days you had to give -it to your mother and didn't know what she done with it. About de first -work I done was for Mr. Boyer, a Frenchman, up in Valle Mines in de -diggin's. I dug mineral, zinc, etc. I got 50 cents a day. He did all de -diggin and I 'coached' it from de head of the drift to de shaft. I had a -little car on wheels dat run on a wooden track. I reckon I worked for -him 'bout two years. My mother would go out to de big dirt pile called -'scrappin' and would pick out de zinc and lead chunks and little pieces. - -"Purt near every Saturday we would take de ore down to Furnace Town and -get it weighed and get a check for it. Den we come back to Farmington -after several years and lived with my sister's husband and worked around -at a little bit of everything. I was gettin' to be a pretty good sized -boy and went to Mine La Motte and worked on de furnace. My first work at -dat place was at $2 a day and later on I became a 'charger' and got -$2.50 a day. I stayed with dem six or seven years. After I left dere I -went to Bonne Terre and got married and got mine sickness or lead colic -from workin' in de furnace and had to quit. I come back to Farmington -and is been here ever since. Den I worked at sawing wood, chopping wood, -and at a soda factory and beer depot and peddled ice and delivered soda -and beer to Knob Lick, Syenite, Graniteville and Bonne Terre. I worked -here for a long time. - -"I'se had four children and two is livin. De boy is in Los Angeles, -California and the girl is in Seattle, Washington. My boy is a chauffeur -for an old, rich feller by de name of Clark and he has been in de same -job for 16 years. He gets $100 a month, room and board. He's been -wanting to quit but de old man won't let him. My son's daughter does de -cooking for dis rich guy. My son is 56 years old now. - -"My daughter is 54 and is married. What she does is more dan I can tell -you. Her husband was a soldier in de regular army, in de 10th Cavalry, -and was in de Philippines, and Cuba and so my daughter is been around -some. She been away from here for about 23 or 24 years. - -"I think de young Negroes need settling down and have more education and -not so much good time. I didn't have much of a chance. We was turned -loose barefooted and had no schools den and when dey had schools I had -to work. But in Mine La Motte a Mr. McFarland would come over to our -cabin and teach me readin', writin' and 'rithmetic. He was an awful -drinker but was smart. I would give him a little something to drink for -teachin' me. I took lessons for 'bout a year. I sure do like to read de -newspapers now and can write letters. The young generation thinks too -much about goin' and having a good time. A little 'task master' wouldn't -hurt de young people. I wasn't in de slavery long enough for it to hurt -me none. I was free when I was 5 years old. My mother, however, was -worked like an old horse and de best part of her life was spent in -bondage. - -"I believe de government should have made some provision for de slaves -when dey turned dem loose. De government could have compelled -slaveholders to give slaves a little track of land, a cow and a horse -and give 'em a start. De slave had made what de white man had. I -actually believe de Negroes would be better off today if they had done -dis. My old mistress just had oodles of land. Of course de white folks -was not used to work and dere was plenty for de Negroes to do if dey -wanted to work. - -"I voted as soon as I got a chance. De first time I voted was in 1880. -I'se had 'em try to pay me to vote but I told dem my vote was not for -sale. You know you ain't dictated to unless you is 'wishy washy'. Once, -a feller asked me how I voted. I said, 'Just to suit myself.' I -generally look over de field and vote for what I think is de best -timber. Dey is goin' to have a hot time in 1940, for dem that lives to -see it. It's a free country and a man should not have to own property in -order to vote. Dey ought not to oppress anyone." - - - - -Rhody Holsell - - - *Interview with "Aunt" Rhody Holsell,* - *Fredericktown, Missouri.* - - _Slaves Happy To Be Free_ - -"Aunt" Rhody Holsell, 89 years old, of Fredericktown, is one of the -interesting ex-slaves in Missouri. According to her story she was 17 -years old when the Civil War ended. Her mother and father were slaves -and both of them had died before the beginning of the conflict. She -believes that she is part Indian as her great grandmother is believed to -have been an Indian squaw. - -The following is her own version of events which played a part in her -life during her slave days and since that time: - -"When dey turned me loose I was naked, barefoot, and didn't have nothin' -to start out on. They turned us loose without a thing and we had to -kinda pick ourselves up. We would go out of a Sunday and dig ginseng and -let it dry for a week and sell it to de store. We would make about a -dollar every Sunday dat way, and den we'd get our goods at de store. The -master and all de boys was killed in de war and de mistress married some -'hostle jostle' who helped to kill the boss. I was jus' not goin' to -stand dat so dis was when I left home. - -"Abraham Lincoln done put a piece in de paper saying dat all de slaves -was free and if dey whipped any of de slaves after dey was set free dey -would prosecute them. Me and another little old woman done some shoutin' -and hollerin' when we heard 'bout de freedom. We tore up some corn down -in de field. De old missus was right there on de fence but wouldn't dare -touch us den. Once de mistress struck me after we was freed and I -grabbed her leg and would have broke her neck. She wanted to apologize -with me de way she had treated me but I would not let her. They thought -it was awful dat dey could not whip de slaves any longer. - -"I den worked from one farm to another. I would stay a year or two each -place. Dey wanted me to stay. Dey said I was de best plow boy dey had. I -would cut de old roots and dey would pop but dey paid me nothin' and dey -didn't give you no clothes. We got so much in de share of de cropping -but dey would not share with me so I would leave. So I come to -Fredericktown to try to find my mother's people but when I got here dey -done told me dey was gone to Illinois. - -"I den come right out of de field and went right into the dining room. I -was never turned off from any of my work. I would just work 'till I got -tired and quit. Talk about bein' happy! We was sure 'nough some happy -people when dey done took dat yoke offen our necks. Before I was free we -had to shuck three wagon loads of corn a day. De wagon would hold 40 -bushels. I'd come home and my fingers would be twisted from so much -work. De oxen would slobber all over de corn before we picked it. It was -cold out dere in de field an' I would wrap my feet up in my dress and -wait till de wagon would drive up. I had no shoes on. Man, I don't know -how I'm here today. It just was de mercy of God that took care of me. -When my mother was dying she done asked God to look over us and it must -have been her prayer dat helped me to still be here. - -"When my mother was sick once de doctor come and brought his wife. De -wife always come with de doctor. De doctor would not allow de family to -give de medicine, 'cause he said de family would give in to de sick -person. De wife of de doctor would give de medicine when de doctor was -asleep. I never seen de family give medicine till I come up here. De -doctors always come and stay till de sick person was out of danger and -de wife always come with him. - -"Lord, people nowadays don't know nothing 'bout nothin'. Child, I spun -backwards and forwards to de wheel till I wore my feet out till de balls -of my feet was wore to de blood. - -"Lots of slaves went to Illinois after freedom, but I never been out of -de State. I don't go to frolics of any kind. I just come here and -settled down and never rambled 'round. I've lived in dis house 55 years -and have buried purty near all my family right out of dis house. I ain't -never had a fuss with any of my neighbors, and I done took de bitter -with de sweet. I ride in an automobile only to funerals. I ain't been on -a train but once or twice and dat was 'bout 40 years ago. I'm interested -in church now, can sit and listen to preachin' and singin' all day, but -I sets right here while dey has all dis other excitement. It's been -seventy years since I done been to Farmington to a picnic. I don't want -de pension so much to roam around but to be protected in my old age and -to have a few more days of peace. I don't care nothin' about clothes. - -"I been votin' at that thing ever since it started. Dey would take me a -free ride when votin' time comes. You can't turn around for dey wants to -take you to vote. But after de voting dey won't pay no attention to me. -I never did vote only a straight ticket and I always went my own way. -Dey would sometimes tell me how to vote but I didn't pay them no mind. -My husband did not believe in women voting and he said it would tear up -de country. He said he wanted to be in heaven when de women voted. -Garfield was de first president I ever voted for. - -"I believe it would been better to have moved all de colored people way -out west to dem selves. Abraham Lincoln wanted to do dis. It would have -been better on both races and dey would not have mixed up. But de white -people did not want de 'shade' taken out of de country. Many of de -bosses after de freedom couldn't stand it and went in de house and got a -gun and blew out his brains. If Lincoln had lived he would have -separated us like dey did de Indians. We would not have been -slaughtering, burning, hanging, and killin' if we had been put to -ourselves, and had our own laws. Many a person is now in torment because -of dis mixup. God give us a better principle and we could have had -thousands of whites slaughtered but we didn't after the freedom. - -"De present generation is a lost condition. If dey don't girdle their -lines and pull dem up closer and ask God to help 'em and quit going to -dem 'hog holes' and drinkin' it is going to be death and destruction. -Dis not only is true of the Negroes but white folks, too. Mother and -father think it is alright. Dese undertakers is goin' out all de time, -night and day, on the highways and pickin' up de carcass of people. It's -sin dat is wrong with de world. De future of the Negro is of the past. -We have some good friends among the white folks but de devil is just got -so strong dat de good can't hardly stand. We have some good citizens in -dis town. I can't read or write but I used to have the white lady read -the funny side of the paper when I set down to eat. - -"Once during de war de soldiers was around me very thick. I was coming -back from carryin' de dinner out in de woods to Sam Hildebrand. I took -him a table cloth, napkins and everything first class. I went down to de -house and hid de basket in a hollow log and crossed de creek and dey -hollered, 'Halt!' De soldiers was cussin' me like a bay steer. Dey said, -'I'll kill you right here and blow your brains out if you don't tell.' I -told dem I had been up dere to water de calves so dey give me my pass -and let me go on to de house. I would not tell dem nothin' 'bout Sam -Hildebrand nor where he was hiding. While Sam et his meal I would stand -'round and watch in de woods. I was de oldest one on de place and I was -de only one what had to carry his meals to him. - -"I would get up many mornings and hear the bugler blowin'. Das when dey -was callin' the pickets in. You would see de pickets come in just -a-flyin' and out sent de fresh pickets on duty. I was not scared of dem. -Sometimes de soldiers stayed 'round our place for two weeks and camped. -Dey was about 500 and de men laid out on de ground under a government -wagon and in some houses around about. Dese soldiers would go out with -sabers and whack de heads off of de sheep, hogs, and calves and in about -five minutes would have dat yearlin' skinned and dash it into de boilin' -kettle. Den dey would take a long knife and cut off a big piece of meat -with the blood runnin' out. Dey did not cook de meat done and did not -put much salt on it. It sure was funny, seein' dem soldiers eatin' a big -hunk of meat with de blood runnin' out. Dey always had bread but don't -know where dey got it. They was so tired and wore out and their feet was -sore and de infantry was almost barefooted. Dey was always dressed in -blue. Sometimes we would have 30 or 40 yards of goods on de loom and dey -would tear it off and send it home to their family. We was glad enough -to get dem to take dis and get out. There would not be a man on de place -when these 500 soldiers come. We always managed to bury dat gentleman -(money). I can remember the boss took out of his chest his money, enough -to fill the table, and put it in a buck skin bag and he went off with -another man. I don't know what become of de money and dey was killed and -there was no one left to tell de tale. - -"I sure had it rough and tumble since de war. Of course I don't have a -boss now. I've worked on de farm, as a dining room girl, washin', -ironing, and hiring out. I would get about $9 to $10 a week. I was -workin' for de railroad people den when de road was runnin' strong here. -My husband he died 40 years ago and he done left me with about 15 cents, -and the mortgage on dis house was about $130. I had a wagon worth about -$40 and old Dr. Newberry took dat for his bill. Den I would do two or -three washings before I come home and would come by de undertaker's and -leave him some money on de funeral. My daughter is a grass widow and she -lives here. Her ex-husband shines shoes down town, but he don't help us -none. My daughter has got three children. - -"I don't go to church lately. It's embarrassing to go in this hot -weather. I know where I want dem to bury me. All the old folks buried -out at de old colored cemetery. - -"I goes down here to de store and if I can't get de money dey waits till -I can, I can get it on a credit. Dey think Aunt Rhody is one of the -leadin' persons of de town. Of course I don't run all over town but go -to one store. Dey have got used to me and dey know it sometimes takes an -hour for me to make up my mind what I want to buy. When I go to de store -they kid me and say: 'Why, Aunt Rhody, ain't you dead yet? You is goin' -to outlive us all.' - -"Slavery learnt me how to work and I wasn't feared of no kind of work. -Most of de people around here don't know nothin' 'bout work. A little -slavery would do dis young age some good and dey is goin' to get it. Dis -young generation is slaughtering our people up, down in de south. Our -people don't know what freedom is down there. Better not go down there -and talk about freedom. My brother went down there in the south and got -back so far from de river dat he never got out. I guess de exposure and -the beatin' killed him. Lots of places dey votes down there, but de -votes is thrown in de waste basket and dey don't count. These people -can't beat up us people and jump up on a bed and close their eyes and -die and expect to go to heaven. - -"I ain't never heard de Bible read till I was free in Fredericktown. -When we was slaves we did not have much time to get out and sin much. -Dis generation is goin' to destruction. It's all on account of not -minding their parents. Dey is just hard-headed. It's caused by de way de -old folks acted and is bein' put on dis present generation. I tell 'em, -you don't think dat you can walk these streets and fall dead and never -said nothin' to God to move this gulf of sin and den expect to go to -Heaven. I'm tryin' to serve God and fightin' all de time against de -devil to keep him from knockin' me over. I'm not a person to go on with -a lot of nonsense. I talk to de young people all de time around de -stores and tell 'em dey is got to get up from there to make it across de -river. Dey all talk about me preachin' a sermon around de stores. But de -devil's already got de 'bill of sale' on dem. I'm talkin' to de Lord all -de time cause my stay is going to be mighty short now." - - *"Aunt Rhody" Holsell,* - *Fredericktown, Missouri.* - *Interviewed by J. Tom Miles.* - -"I've lived in Fredericktown ever since de war and only two or three -times I've been out of hollering distance of town. I was seventeen years -old when de war was over. My boss was Thos. McGee in Wayne County. My -mother and father were slaves. My great-grandmother was a Indian squaw. -My mother was dead four years 'fore de war and my father was dead three -years. - -"I sure can 'member 'bout de war. De funniest thing was some soldiers -camped at our house. Man, I would pull weeds in de cotton patch, and -when I got a little older I was a-carding and spinning and dat wheel was -a-singing. I spun all de chain all through de Civil War and I spun all -de warp. De boss treated us very good. De boss would know every row of -corn we would hoe; sometimes we would break de corn off and den we got a -whipping with a weed. - -"De boss lost all three of his boys with their shoes on in de war, but -dey did not join de army. De boss was also killed. De boss had a race -horse and de soldiers found dis out an de boss tried to get de hoss out -of de state to New Orleans until after de war. My brother got de race -hoss down there all right. My brother got on Knight and rode clear to -Cape and his closes were torn off. He get to Cape just as de boat was -pulling out. Dey killed de boss when he got on another hoss an he was -shot 'cause de soldiers thought he was on de race hoss. Dey killed de -boss in August on Monday. De boss was going that day to Greenville to -make his will. - -"After de war I worked my way to Fredericktown. I started out bareheaded -an barefooted. I worked from one farm to another. I worked at one farm -for two years and at another for one year. These people paid me a -little. It took 'bout five years 'fore I got to Fredericktown. I did -anything. I cradled five acres of oats and my husband bound it. I didn't -fear no kind of boss. I have ten great grand-children, and one -great-great-grandchild. - -"I took Sam Hildebrand's dinner to him many times and when Sam was -killed in Southern Illinois dey tried to get me to go up to Farmington -to identify him. But I would not do it. I told dem dat he had a mark -behind his shoulder dat dey could see. I 'member once when Sam -Hildebrand was shot and came to our place to have his sore washed out. I -held de wash pan for old Tom McGee to wash his wound. - -"De old folks had all kinds of tea to heal people. De old mistress took -de 'ridicue' [TR: reticule] with her and would be gone for a week going -from one sick person to another. My boss caused my mother's death. She -was on a wagon of oats and was being pulled by a yoke of oxen. De wagon -turned and she fell off on a sapling and it went through her skin and -dey had to saw de sapling off and she had to lay with dat snag in her -side till de doctor twenty miles away come. It was in August and she -died with poison. Her coffin was made right out on de work bench. Dey -didn't have anything in de coffin but a winding sheet scolloped nicely -and a shroud for de body. It was a miracle to me when I came up here to -see how dey dressed up de dead people. When I die just wrap me in a -clean sheet. That was what my fore-parents had. It's better to think -whar dat soul is. Two wheel carts was mostly used at funerals in those -days with oxen. The driver would be walking along beside driving. - -"De Boss said one man was treated mean and they could not do anything -with him. The old fellow would play his gourd and de snakes would come -'round. Finally dey sent him down to New Orleans and sold him on de -block. - -"If you move on Saturday you won't stay long. If de boss decides about -you on Tuesday or Friday these are hanging days. I can't read or write -but I have a little mother sense. We have three spirits, evil spirit in -de grave, another spirit which is wandering, and a spirit in heaven. - -"I think slavery is good for dem dat understands it. We are all slaves -now. We have a rough and tumble business. Slavery was cruel but it's -about as bad now. Them days they didn't hang anybody for doing bad -things. I may be wrong. I been voting ever since de mess got up. My -husband said he wanted to be in heaven when de women would be messin' -'round among de men and voting. I wish we had a whole lot of Abraham -Lincolns now. He did a great deed when he took de yoke off us colored -people. We will get a little rest anyway." - - - - -Henry Johnson - - - *Interview with Henry Johnson,* - *St. Louis, Missouri.* - *(Written by Grace E. White.)* - -The subject of this sketch is Henry Johnson, over ninety years of age, -living at 1526 Hanley Road, Lincoln Terrace, St. Louis, Missouri. Henry -is of dark complexion and has a wealth of long white hair and feminine -features. - -His eyesight is good. He is in excellent health for his age. The old man -admits that his main weakness is chewing tobacco. He was seated in the -living room of his 4-room, old fashioned frame cottage which is poorly -furnished, but clean, where he lives with his wife, at least twenty-five -years younger than himself. His story follows: - -"My name is Henry Johnson. I was born in Patrick County, Virginia and -was raised all over de state. I was only sold twice. My father's name -was Bill Alexander and my mother's name was Fannie, but I didn't know -nothin' 'bout my parents till I was past eighteen years old or about -that. I never knowed my real age. My owner's name was Billy Johnson in -Patrick County so I always carried his name. When I was a little bit 'a -fellow, I used to pack water to twenty-five and thirty men in one field, -den go back to de house and bring enough water for breakfast de next -morning. When I got a little bigger, I had to take a little hoe and dig -weeds out of de crop. If our white boss see a little grass we overlooked -he would handcuff our feet to a whipping post, den chain the slave -around de stomach to de post and strap de chin over de top of de post -and place your hands in front of you. - -"In de start de slave has been stripped naked, and lashed, often to -death. Dey would be left strapped after from twenty-five to fifty lashes -every two or three hours to stand dere all night. De next day, de -overseer would be back with a heavy paddle full of holes that had been -dipped in boiling water and beat until de whole body was full of -blisters. Den he'd take a cat-o'-nine-tails dipped in hot salt water to -draw out de bruised blood and would open everyone of dem blisters with -dat. If de slave did not die from dat torture, he would be unfastened -from de whipping post, and made go to de field just as he was. Often -times he would die shortly after. Dey did the women de same." - -Here he showed the writer scars on his head and shoulders which he said -were from those beatings. - -"I never knowed what a shirt was until I was past twenty. When my young -master went three miles to school, he rode on a horse, I had to walk -along side de horse to carry his books, den go home and fetch him a hot -dinner for noon and go back after him at night to carry dem books. - -"My boss had eleven children. He had one hundred and twenty-five slaves -on one of de plantations, two hundred on another. On all his plantations -he owned better'n 1500 slaves. He was one of de richest land owners in -de state of Virginia. He often told me I was born just one hour before -his youngest son. I stayed with dat family until way after de war was -fought. - -"Dey would take a great string of slaves in de road on Sunday and make -us walk to church. Buggies with de white folks in would be in front of -us, in de midst of us, and all betwixt and behind us. When we got dat -four or five miles we had to sit on a log in de broiling sun, while a -white man preached to us. All dey evah would say would be niggers obey -your masters and mistress and don't steal from 'em. And lo and behold, -honey, de masters would make us slaves steal from each of the slave -owners. Our master would make us surround a herd of his neighbor's -cattle, round dem up at night, and make us slaves stay up all night long -and kill and skin every one of dem critters, salt the skins down in -layers in de master's cellar, and put de cattle piled ceilin' high in de -smoke house so nobody could identify skinned cattle. - -"Den when de sheriff would come around lookin' for all dem stolen -critters, our boss would say, 'Sheriff, just go right on down to dem -niggahs' cabins and search dem good, I know my niggers don't steal.' -Course de sheriff come to our cabins and search, sure we didn't have -nothin' didn't belong to us, but de boss had plenty. After de sheriff's -search, we had to salt and smoke all dat stolen meat and hang it in old -marse smoke house for him. Den dey tell us, don't steal. Dey raised -turkeys in de 500 lots and never did give us one. So we wanted one so -bad once, I put corn underneath de cabin and a turkey, a great big one, -would come under our cabin to eat dat corn. One day when I got a chance -I caught dat old gobbler by de neck and him and me went round and round -under dat old cabin house. He was de biggest strongest bird I ever see, -I was only a boy but finally I beat. I twisted his neck till he died. -Den I took out up to de big house, fast as anything, to tell my old miss -one of our finest turkeys dead. She said stop cryin' Henry and throw him -under de hill. I was satisfied. I run back, picked dat ole bird, taken -all his feathers to de river and throwed dem in. Dat night we cooked -him, and didn't we eat somethin' good. I had to tell her 'bout dat -missin' bird 'cause when dey check up it all had to tally so dat fixed -dat. - -"My old master told me when de war was being fought and the Yankees was -on de way coming through Franklin County, Virginia, 'My little niggah, -do you know how old you is?' I said: 'No sah, boss.' He said: 'You are -seventeen years old.' I never even saw my mother and father until I was -in my twenties. A white man taken me to Danville, Virginia to drive his -carriage for him. After I was dere a spell a colored man kept watching -me so much I got plum scared. Dis was after de war was over. Den one -day, lo and behold, he jumped at me and he grabbed me and asked me where -was I staying. I did not know whether to tell him or not, I was so -scared. Den he said I am your father and I am goin' to take you to your -mother and sisters and brothers down in Greenville, Virginia. When he -got me dere, I found two sisters and four brothers. Dey was all so glad -to see me dey shouted and cried and carried on so I was so scared I -tried to run away, 'cause I didn't know nothin' 'bout none of them. And -I thought dat white man what brought me down here ought to have saved me -from all dis. I just thought a white man was my God, I didn't know no -better. - -"Well, when my folks finally stopped rejoicing, my mother only had two -chickens. She killed and cooked dem for me. My father and brothers would -go to work every day and leave me at home with my mother for over a -year. They would not trust me to work, feared I would run off 'cause I -didn't no nothin' 'bout them. Hadn't even heard of a mother and father. -My brother and father would work all day and only get one peck of corn -or one pound of meat or one quart of molasses for a whole day's work -from sun up till sun down. We had to grind dat corn for our flour, and -got biscuits once a year at Christmas and den only one biscuit apiece. - -"After a little better'n a year after I come, the white man told my -father to bring his family and move from Greenhill, Virginia to Patrick -County, Virginia to his big farm, and farm dere for him and he would -give him one half of all he raised for his share. We went, and did we -raise a big crop. He kep' his word all right and we stayed dere till de -white man died five years later. Den we went to another farm. We had -cleared enough in the five years to buy us a fine pair of oxen and had -money besides. So we went to another farm and went to work giving the -owner of the farm one third of the crop and kep' two thirds ourselves. -We stayed there two years. Then father sold de oxen and went to -Sweetville, Virginia and bought $200 worth of land and stayed about five -years. We made our crop with a hoe and made good. Den I left home and -run about all over, learned how to play a violin and made my livin' with -it for a long time. - -"I quit dat and railroaded about eight years working on sections and new -grading. Den went to Decatur, Alabama and worked with a land company -putting down pipings about three months. I quit dat and married Anna -Johnson and come to Giles County, Tennessee. We had one son. - -"I came to St. Louis from Tennessee more dan forty years ago. I got work -right away at Cycle & Harris Steel Plant on 18th Street and worked dere -about six months, when I got scalded almost to death on the job. I got a -new nose and a new ear from dat accident. All de flesh of my right arm -was off to de bone. I was in de hospital eight months from it and I got -$500 out of de damage suit. I bought me a horse and wagon out of it and -done light hauling, and moved out here in Lincoln Terrace and been out -here ever since. - -"I landscaped out here for sixteen years until I was disabled to work -hard any more. I got a garden but I can't make any money from it, 'cause -all de other folks out here got gardens too. I am a deacon in Mt. Zion -Baptist Church right here at de corner. Rev. Thomas is my pastor. - -"I only went to school three days in my whole life but a colored friend -taught me how to spell out of a blue back spelling book. His name was -Charlie Snowball. I was learning fine until I got burned. Den my eye -sight was poor for a long time, but I see now very good. I only need -glasses for to read what little I can read. I can't write at all. My -grandfather was 135 years old when he died, and my father lived to be -135. - -"De white people in Missouri sure have been mighty good to me since I -been here. I have as nice clothes as any man in St. Louis, good clothes -what I mean. All been given' to me by white people able to give -somethin'. I have not had to buy a hat, shoes or suit of clothes for -over twenty-five years, and got far more good clothes dan I can ever -wear out till my dying day. I think these 20th century white folks dat -have principle are trying to make amends to Negroes to make up for the -meanness their foreparents done to us, so I try to forgive 'em all in my -heart for the sake of a few good ones now. I've buried two wifes from -dis very house. I am now living with my third wife and she is a mighty -fine woman. We have been together about sixteen years." - - - - -Hannah Jones - - - *Interview with Hannah Jones,* - *St. Louis, Missouri.* - *(Written by Grace E. White,* - *St. Louis, Mo.)* - - _Bred Slaves Like Stock_ - -Hannah Jones was born in Cape Girardeau, Missouri, August 3, about 1850, -the daughter of Lottie Oil and Noah Thompson. Her story follows: - -"The niggers had three or four wifes before de war, as many as dey could -bear chillun by. But after de war dey had to take one woman and marry -her. My mother had three chillun by him and de odder wifes had three and -four chillun too. Old man, Ben Oil raised my mother. He was an old -bachelor but his brothers were all married. - -"Ben Oil had 100 niggers. He just raised niggers on his plantation. His -brother-in-law, John Cross raised niggers, too. He had 125 niggers. He -had a nigger farm. His other brother-in-law we call old man English, had -100 niggers. Dey all jes' had nothin' else but niggers. Before de war -broke out, Tom Oil and John Oil come up dah and taken all us niggers but -eight and eight acres of land he left for Ben Oil's housekeeper. Old -Marse Ben died and after dat Tom carried us all back down der to New -Orleans wid him and opened up a nigger pen. Dat's a place like a stock -yard where dey auction us off. De old ones was de ones dey was anxious -to get shet of. We only know our ages by known' we is born in corn -plantin' and cotton pickin' time. We never even knowed de days of de -week. - -"I had three aunts to die in all dat huddle of niggers. De doctors make -us go walking every day 'cause dat was de only exercise we git. One of -dem aunts dropped dead on de street while walking. De other two died in -de slave pen. My grandmother was a fine seamstress. She sewed all de -sewing for de white folks. Three days after her first baby was born dey -made her git up and make twelve stiff-front, tucked white shirts for her -old mistress' boy who be goin' off to college and she was so sick and -weak, some of de stitches was crooked. Old Miss ordered de overseer to -take her out and beat her 'bout it. Before he did de doctor looked at -her and said 'tain't no use beatin' her she won't do you no more good. -She's stone blind, but she can have chillun right on. So dey kept her -for dat and she bore twelve more head of chillun after dat. - -"My mother was black as a crow and her hair was so long she could sit on -it. Dey brought a huddle of niggers over amongst de Indians from all -over de south and Maryland and intermarried 'em wid dere own sisters, -brothers, cousins, nieces and de like. De niggers didn't know for years -dey was any kin. When dey want to raise certain kind a breed of chillun -or certain color, dey just mixed us up to suit dat taste, and tell de -nigger dis is your wife or dis is your husband and dey take each other -and not know no better and raise big families to de white folks liking. - -"I never can forget one Sunday morning de rebels come into Cape -Girardeau. De old Miss what raised me had just killed two hogs and put -'em in de smoke house. I got up bright and early dat Sunday morning. I -looked out toward de smoke house and seed two white men out dere dressed -in blue clothes and dey just went in Old Miss' smoke house and help dem -selves. I run right fast and told old Miss what was going on out der in -her smoke house. But dere wasn't no men folks around so we couldn't help -ourselves. Dey told us dey was 300 strong and just den some others come -over de hill and told 'em come on, hurry up so dey climbed de hill in a -hurry leaving dere. They had three gun boats and dey turned one of dem -things loose up der as dey was goin' and Lawd child dat thing destroyed -property for miles around. - -"Some of dem rebels had ball bats, some had sticks, some riding and some -walking. Dey killed three of us niggers in our camp dat morning. All de -nigger men been taken away just leaving us nigger women and chillun. Dey -burned down frame and log huts just de same. My mother lived to be 115 -years old, two uncles lived to be 100, one sister over 60. I use glasses -when I read but am blind in one eye. My husband has been dead 37 years. -He was an old soldier so Uncle Sam gives me a pension. - -"I had 15 head of chillun. I have now seven grandchillun and four great -grandchillun. I has been in St. Louis 17 years and lives with my -daughter Nancy McDonald, 2804 Dayton Street." - - - - -Emma Knight - - - *Interview with Emma Knight,* - *Hannibal, Missouri.* - - _Emma Was Really Rough_ - -Emma Knight, living at 924 North Street, Hannibal, Missouri, was born in -slavery on the farm of Will and Emily Ely, near Florida, Monroe County. -The following is her story as she told it: - -"We lived on a Creek near Florida. We belonged to Will Ely. He had only -five slaves, my father and mother and three of us girls. I was only -eight or nine years old. De Elys had eight children. Dere was Paula, -Ann, Sarah, Becky, Emily, Lizzie, Will, Ike, and Frank. Lizzie was de -oldest girl and I was to belong to her when she was married. - -"De master of de house was better to us dan de mistress. We didn't have -to work none too hard, 'cause we was so young, I guess. We cut weeds -along de fences, pulled weeds in de garden and helped de mistress with -de hoeing. We had to feed de stock, sheep, hogs, and calves, because de -young masters wouldn't do de work. In de evenings we was made to knit a -finger width and if we missed a stitch would have to pull all the yarn -out and do it over. De master's girls learned us to read and write. We -didn't have hardly no clothes and most of de time dey was just rags. We -went barefoot until it got real cold. Our feet would crack open from de -cold and bleed. We would sit down and bawl and cry because it hurt so. -Mother made moccasins for our feet from old pants. Late in de fall -master would go to Hannibal or Palmyra and bring us shoes and clothes. -We got dem things only once a year. I had to wear de young master's -overalls for underwear and linseys for a dress. - -"My father was took away. My mother said he was put on a block and sold -'cause de master wanted money to buy something for de house. My mother -told me she come from Virginia or down south some place. Dey brought her -in a box car with lots of other colored people. Dere was several cars -full, with men in one car, women in another, and de younger ones in -another, and de babies in another with some of the women to care for -dem. Dey brought dem to Palmyra and sold dem. Master Ely bought my -mother. I don't know where my father come from. - -"Mistress always told us dat if we run away somebody would catch us and -kill us. We was always scared when somebody strange come. De first we -knew dere was a war was when some soldiers come through. We was sure -scared den. Once a man come and we thought he was a patroller but he -asked for something to eat. Mother took him to de mistress. She gave him -something to eat wrapped in a paper and told him to get off de place. - -"Some Union soldiers come and told us that we was free like dey was and -told us not to be afraid, dey wouldn't hurt us. Dey told us de war was -over. De master told mother not to go away, dat if she stayed a while he -would give her a couple hundred dollars. We stayed a while but she never -got no money. - -"We come to Hannibal in an ox wagon. We put up at de barracks and den -mother went to live with Hiram Titchner. He lived right where de -postoffice is now. I hired out to Mrs. James across de street for my -clothes and schooling. Mrs. James had two girls. One of dem learned me -not to be such a tomboy and not to be so rough. I tell you I was a bad -girl when I was young. I could climb every tree on de master's farm and -my clothes was always in rags from being so rough. My mother used to -whip me most every day with a broom stick and even hit me with chairs. I -guess I was bad. If I had a dollar for every broom handle that was laid -across my back I would have lots of money. I tell you we was raised -plenty tuff dem days. - -"De young folks can't stand such raising dese days. Dey just couldn't go -through what we was through. The young folks now just couldn't do it at -all. We never was 'lowed on the street after nine o'clock. We sure run -for home when the church bell done rung on de hill at nine o'clock. -Now-a-days de young folks stays out half de night and dey steal and even -kill each other over triflin' things. I know it 'cause I see them do -dese things. I 'spose dere parents are a lot to blame. - -"I was married when I was young, less dan twenty I reckon. I had one -girl but she is dead now. Her boy lives with me. I gets a pension, seven -dollars a month, for about a year now. This little old shack belongs to -me. I go to de Baptist Church over on Center Street when ever I can. We -used to go to church on de corner 'cross from de postoffice. Dere is a -big store dere now." - - - - -Harriet Lee - - - *Interview with Harriet Lee,* - *Cape Girardeau, Missouri.* - -"Mah mammy tole me ah wuz jes fo' year ole wen de war end, so ah don' -'member much 'bout fo' de war. Ole Massa wuz Buckner Caldwell an' ole -Missus, we a'ways call Miss Coon, dat de only name ah knows huh by, jes -Miss Coon. He war a fine ole man but she war a hard one. Ah wuz name -aftuh young Missie Harriet. - -"De white folks had a fine house, a very large house standin' high up on -a bluff 'bout a mile an three quawterhs fum Cumbuhlain' Rivuh. Dat wuz -in Smith County, Tennessee. - -"Ah don rightly 'member 'bout how many slaves dey had, but dere war -sev'ral cabins whut us cullud folks live in. - -"Mah mammy and daddy wuz Sarah an Bob Tadwell. Mammy wuz raised in -Vuhginyuh an' when she wuz sixteen yeah ole she wuz put on de block an' -sold in Nashville. - -"Mah mammy wuz a seamstress. She nevuh work in de fiel', an' she don' -know nuthin' 'bout cookin', but she do fine sewin'. When dey put her on -de block dey has some o' huh work dar tuh show what fine sewin' she kin -do. Yuh know all de sewin war done by han' an mah mammy'd sew sometime -till huh finguhs nearly drap off. She sew de fines' tucks an' she make -all dem fine tuck bosom shurts fo' de men. - -"One time a man come an' wunna buy mammy an me. Miss Coon wuz gonna sell -us unbeknownst to ole Massa. Ole Massa wouldn' sell none o' his people, -but Miss Coon ahways try to put things ovuh on him an' he couldn' do -nuthin 'bout it but go git drunk. Ole Miss Coon put de price on us a way -up high--'cause mammy sech a fine seamstress an' ah wuz ahways a buxum -chile, nevuh sick er nuthin. But he say dat too much an' he go on home. -Aftuh while wen dey so much talk 'bout freein' de niggers Miss Coon sont -him word dat she come way down on de price but he sont back word dat he -got ez much sense as she got. - -"We lef' thar when we wus free. My mammy ahways got work a sewin'. Ah -stayed wuth one white woman fifteen year. - -"Yessum de Ku Kluxes cum aroun' right smaht. De woman ah stayed wuth -wouldn' 'low no foolishness roun' her place an' dey nevuh bothuh huh -none, but dey beat up some o' de neighbors. One ole man dey beat till he -die." - - - - -Mattie Lee [HW: Head] - - - *Interview with Mrs. Mattie Lee,* - *aged 78, Fredericktown, Missouri.* - *Interviewed by J. Tom Miles.* - -"My mother was a slave in Franklin Parish, Louisiana, 'bout 200 miles -from New-Orleans. I was born in 1862. My mother's name was Caroline Head -by marriage. She was born in slavery. Her home was in Mississippi first -and she emigrated to Louisiana 'cause de land was worn out. I had seven -brothers and sisters and all are gone but me. My mother was separated -from my father two times. My mother was married three times due to being -moved around. My brother's father was sent into a free state under some -consideration. Bush Baker was my mother's boss. De boss had two -plantations. De morning I was going to be born de overseer began to -fight my mother and a colored man took a hoe and said if the man hit her -again he would knock his brains out. The overseer had been at this place -for four years and had not been paid. Mother was confined in de field -and dey got her to de house. If Baker had been thar he would have killed -de overseer. Three men came up to kill de overseer with guns for beatin' -my mother and de overseer had to leave. My mother never did get over her -troubles dat morning. Mrs. Baker said it would be better for mother to -work in de field 'cause mother could then take better care of her -children. - -"Mrs. Baker was kind and tended de children when dey was sick. Mrs. -Baker took us to Texas during de war 'cause she was afraid the Union -soldiers would take her slaves away from her. After peace was declared -de soldiers came and told de white people dat de slaves was free. But we -never did leave Mrs. Baker's place. After de war was over Mrs. Baker -took us back to Louisiana. We traveled with a team of oxen and three -teams of mules with wagons. Some of Mrs. Baker's slaves staid in Texas -and never did come back from Texas. Dis was in 1865. - -"I can 'member de home place. De county road went close to de front -gate. Mrs. Eliza Baker had a beautiful yard and after de war she would -have us come and stay in de yard to be protected from de jay-hawkers. De -high water would come past de fence and we would play in de water. One -time a jay-hawker come and git one of de children in a skiff and den we -yelled and de mastah come out with his pistol and hit de jay-hawker over -de head. So de jay-hawker turned de child over again. So we did not play -down in de water no more. - -"De mistress had a long table out in de front yard under de smokehouse -shed and here all us children had our food. It was good food. Mrs. Baker -had a fig nursery in de front yard and we would go and pick washtubs of -figs. Some were dried and others were put up. Mrs. Baker had a -plantation of 1,800 acres. On week ends we would dance and they would -always be getting married. We had a colored man on de place who could -read and he did de marrying. De only school I ever went to was to a -night school here fer a short time. Dey would tell me a story 'bout 'de -bear an de Grand-ma' an 'bout 'little Riden' Hood'. Dey use to tell us -some awful yarns. Dey would kill over 100 head of hogs every year and -cure it, and I can't get used to buyed meat today. Mrs. Baker would take -anyone in de wagon to church dat wanted to go. My aunt went to church -but would not be baptized. - -"I 'member when de Ku Klux Klan started out when dey would dress up in -white and dey had a noise like 'O-O' 'O-O'. But we were not 'fraid of -dem 'cause we knew dey would be killed if dey come on de place. I think -a lot of Abe Lincoln. I have often thought how hard it was to give up -his life, fer de United States. But Christ died for to save de world and -Lincoln died to save de United States. And Lincoln died more Christ like -den any other man dat ever lived. - -"Dere was an old colored man on de place and he would drive Jeff Davis -'round and would keep Davis in his house and feed him. This was when -Jeff Davis was a boy, and a orphan. Jeff Davis gave dis colored man, -Montgomery, a lot of land. It's a good thing dat slavery is over. -Anything wants a privilege outside and not in a coop. Slaves could not -be natural when they was dis way. Everybody wants to do somethin' with -demselves. - -"I staid in Louisiana till 1875 and got mad and left and went to Madison -Parish, Louisiana. It was not de white people dat made me leave here but -it was my father. Den I went to Vicksburg for seven months, den to St. -Louis on a mail boat. It cost me $8.50 to come from Vicksburg to St. -Louis. I found work in St. Louis in a little while. Never did have to -worry 'bout where I was going to sleep. I left Madison Parish 'cause we -had a flood when de levee broke. - -"I came to St. Louis in 1883 and did all kinds of house work. I got a -dollar a day. Den I came to Fredericktown 'cause I wanted to own a home. -You were never sure dat you could have a sure claim to land in St. -Louis. It was a 'quick Claim'. We lived one mile above Fredericktown and -had seven or eight acres. I married in Fredericktown and have no -children. My husband has been dead since 1908. I made my way fine by -washin' and ironing an made $18 a week since my husband died. I paid -$985 for dis house." - - - - -Wes Lee - - - *Interview with Wes Lee,* - *Cape Girardeau, Missouri.* - -"My mastuh's name was Peter Burns and we lived out in Cape County, close -to the Houck place. My daddy's name was Charles Lee. Mammy's name was -'Lizabeth, and old mastuh bought her from de Catholic priests. Old -mastuh had a big white frame house and it had lots of trees 'round it. -There was a saw-mill jes' across de road. - -"I was just a little feller during de war, but I can remember dat when -de Rebel sojers come by our place old mastuh had de table set for 'em, -and treat 'em fine--'cause he's a rebel--den when de 'Yankees' come -along he give dem de bes' he had, and treat 'em fine 'cause he's a -'Yankee'. Old Jedge Ranney live on de next place and he and old mastuh -was good friends--but he was such a hot southerner he couldn't stand old -mastuh to act like dat. In a way I guess old mastuh was right for none -of de sojers never bother nuthin' on de place. - -"One time de blue-coats was coming by de jedge's place. De jedge had -lots of turkeys and dey was roosting up in de trees. I don't think de -sojers was bothering nuthin', but something must've skeered dem turkeys -for dey commenced making a awful racket. Den de jedge, he come out, ask -what dey doing to his turkeys--and he raise a big fuss. So den de sojers -druv' into de barn--dey was a great big barn with a drive through de -middle. Dey jes' drove in de wagons, loaded 'em with corn and hay--and -dey caught some chickens and dey take all de jedge's best hosses. De -jedge jes' stand there and watch 'em. He can't do nuthing 'cause de more -he say de more dey takes. But dey never bother old mastuh's place -none--'cause he make friends with both sides. - -"One time de Rebel sojers was there. Old mastuh had de table all set -with everything fine to eat. And de Rebels was jes' getting ready to eat -when we hear de big guns from de forts, at de Cape, and word come dat de -Yanks was coming. I can jes' see dem Rebel sojers yet--how dey rolled -out of there. Most of 'em was a-wearin' coonskin caps with de tail -a-hangin' down. And how dey did go! Dat was de time Mahmaduke was -a-tryin' to take de Cape. I hear de Yanks overtook him about Allenville -and had a skirmish there. - -"No'm I don't much believe in ghosts and de like--and yet one time out -there by Benton Hill--you know dey always say Benton Hill's -ha'nted--well I was comin' along there one evening 'bout dark--and from -across de road come two men--dey was dressed in kind of white suits and -had big, floppy hats on. Dey didn't say nothing and cross de road, right -in front of me--with dey heads hanging down. When I gets a little past -'em I thinks--wonder where dey's going? So I looks back and sees 'em -start up dat hill and then jest plum disappear. I studies 'bout that, -and next morning when I goes back, I goes to look and see where de -tracks go. De clay on dat hillside were so soft if you'd put your hand -down it would leave a track, but dey warn't a sign of a track whar I -seed dem men walk up dar and disappear. After dat I always carry me a -lantern when I goes by dar, at night, and when folks tells me 'bout -spirits dey seen I don't never tell 'em I don't believe 'em." - - - - -Perry McGee - - - *Interview with Perry McGee,* - *Festus, Missouri.* - - _Perry Is Right At 87_ - -"I was born near Fayette, Missouri, not far from New Florence on -September 2, 1850. Dat makes me right at 87 years old. My father's name -was Stephen Estol and Mother's was Agnes Swiney. My grandfather's name -was Albert McGee and he was borned in Virginia. He was a carpenter. My -grandmother's name was Emily and she was a slave in Glasgow, Howard -County, Missouri. I was born just three miles northwest of Glasgow. My -boss den is now a banker in Kansas City. His name is James Alwald -Swiney. Once he was a preacher in St. Louis and I saw him preachin' dere -once. He seen me going along de street one day. I never would have -knowed him, only he said: 'Hey boy, where you from? Where did you hail -from?' I said: 'I hails from Howard County.' He said: 'Come in.' - -"I went in and stayed dere mighty near all day and ate dinner with dem. -He come out on de porch and told me not to call him master but to call -him Mr. Swiney. We talked all evening and he told me to be a good boy -and to be truthful. - -"You know Abraham Lincoln offered $300 a head before de war for all de -slaves but de people would not sell any more dan you would cut your -shade tree down in your yard. So dey elected Jefferson Davis President. -A man by de name of Grigsby was a slave buyer. It was like you would -want a hog or cow and dey would put slaves on de block and 'cry them -off'. You have got to make profit on de deal. A good strong man would -sell for $300 and some for $100. A house slave was worth more dan a -field slave. - -"Dey wouldn't sell my mother. De old mistress would not allow my mother -to be sold. I had only one sister and two brothers. One brother died -when I was a baby. De Rebel soldiers taken me. I was a waiter. When -Price's raid come they took me off de farm. After dey left Pilot Knob -dey come up through Missouri and fired on Glasgow and only 900 militia -and regular soldiers could not fight 90,000 rebels. So dese 900 ran and -blew up de powder magazine and it sounded just like thunder and looked -like a black cloud. De rebels went on across de river and said dey was -going to make de niggers smell hell. De soldier said, 'Hey, little -nigger, we want you to go with us and wait on de Captain.' I was light -as a feather almost and dey boosted me up on a horse behind one of de -soldiers and took me to Glasgow to a eatin' place. Dey had hard tack -made without any salt or any shortnin' about em. There was plenty -springs up there. I had to clean off de horse, and played marbles and -turned handsprings and dey had me for a monkey. I could walk on my -hands. Lots of times dey would chip in and pay me a little. When I left -and was free I had $18 in nickels and dimes and had only one piece as -big as a quarter. I was as 'fraid of a Union soldier as of a rattle -snake. Horace Swiney come to town and begged de soldiers to let me come -back so he brought me back on his horse. I was in Glasgow about three -days. - -"One day young Swiney come out and told us we was free and for us to -call him Mr. Swiney and not master. Dere was only one colored family who -left the farm here of 800 acres. All de rest of us stayed right dere. He -had about 70 slaves. De old man made a talk and said dey was plenty of -land dere and we could all stay and work as we had been. After de -freedom dey paid me 10 cents a day or $3 a month and board. Man, I done -everything. I carried water on my head. See! my head is flat and I ain't -got no sense. I had to carry water in 'piggins', something like a well -bucket with one handle so you could catch it with one hand and set it up -on your head. Dese buckets was made out of wood on de place dere by a -good carpenter. De piggins would hold 2 gallons of water. - -"I've had 12 children and I was married 55 years when my wife died. I -only got 6 children livin' now, 4 boys and 2 girls. One of my girls, -Alice, is a teacher in de college in St. Louis. She went to four -colleges, at Champaign, Illinois; Lincoln University, Jefferson City; -University of Chicago and at Honolulu University where she is dis -summer. She has been teaching about 5 or 6 years. She teaches geography -and mathematics. I went naked, barefooted, and hungry and send my -daughter to school. She went to grade school right here in Festus. Alice -is 42 now and she wants to marry and have four children. Bessie is my -other daughter, and she has taught school for 18 years. She is a -graduate of Lincoln University and taught at Cape Girardeau 4 years, at -Lost Creek in Washington County 2 years, in Festus for 6 years, and in -Appleton, Missouri, too. Bessie is married now and she don't have any -children. I stays right here with her. - -"My son, Granville McGee, lives in St. Paul, Minnesota, and works on de -Northern Pacific Railroad and is a waiter between Chicago and Seattle. -He's been with dem 17 years. His is a six day run and he has 6 children. -Another son, W.C. McGee, lives in Lansing, Michigan. He is a Democrat. -When de Democrats is in power I is a Democrat and when de Republicans is -in power I'se a Republican. Dat's de way it generally goes. My son up in -Lansing is editor of the Lansing Eye Opener, and has been editor for -several years. He is another one who had a pretty good education and is -a graduate of Lincoln University, too. He was a porter for a railroad -before he was a editor. You got to have a pretty fair education to be a -porter now. My oldest son, 61, lives in Rockford, Illinois. He was born -in Crystal City and when he was here he was an inspector in de sand -mines. He is a furnace man over at Rockford in a glass factory. He has -been working for de glass company ever since he was big enough to walk. -He is married and has one child. My son, Oscar, is a railroader and -lives in St. Louis and is a porter on a train what runs between St. -Louis and down in Mexico. He is married and has no children and never -will have none. His wife had a accident. - -"After I was free I come to St. Louis and done a little of everything -and worked for my step-father and worked harder for him dan for my -master. I sawed wood and drove a cart. We had a coal and wood yard. I -did not get paid but could eat. I worked for him until one day I met my -father's sister on de street and she asked me some questions on Morgan -Street in St. Louis. - -"Den I went with Uncle Jim McGee to live and he took me down to -Greenville, Mississippi and picked cotton and worked as a porter at de -hotel dere. I got $12 a month and board. I didn't stay down dere very -long and come back to St. Louis and worked at Billing's Bank dat was a -saloon and was paid $18 a month and made extra about $25 on tips. I -worked for him for about two years plumb 'till I come down in Jefferson -County. I worked 30 years over in the plate glass factory in Crystal -City and had to quit dere on account of my eyes. I was firing in de -furnace. I sometimes made $4 a day and board at de factory. Den I worked -for 27 years for de Festus Mercantile Company and done a little bit of -everything. I gets $11 a month now as an old age pension. - -"I was 21 or 2 when I first voted. My first vote was for U.S. Grant for -President at Hematite, Missouri. My last vote was for F.D. Roosevelt. -Lots of dem wanted to pay me to vote a certain way but I never paid any -attention to dem. I'm a Democrat now. I don't think a man ought to be -allowed to vote unless dey know what dey doin'. - -"I'se went to school only three days in my life. De missus learned me my -A, B, C's and all de rest I learned myself. I paid $1.50 a month to go -to night school in St. Louis for three months and learned to read and -spell, but I just can't write. If I had de chance dat de young folks -have now I would go as high as you could go. I can talk some German -'cause I worked for a Dutchman once. De young generation of colored -people ain't goin' to amount to nothin'. Dey don't want to work, but one -out of a thousand might do something. Dey all think dey know too much -and don't want to learn no more. My other boys will never know what my -son knows. De young ones don't appreciate their advantages. Booker T. -Washington had a hard time. We will never have no more like him. Some of -de slave holders treated de slaves better than dey is today. De young -generation is about at their best now. Dey think too much about their -pleasure. Dey don't have enough work to do. I used to work 16 hours a -day. Now dey is got it down to 6 hours a day. I think it was good for -some of de colored people to be slaves. - -"I think it would be better if some of the ones now were slaves and it -would teach dem to work. My young mistress treated me good and I went -with her right behind a horse called Andrew. She thought a heap of me -and I thought a heap of her. - -"Dere ain't but two classes of people, good and bad, and dey been tryin' -to separate de black people from de white people but de line has already -been cut. Colored women is havin' white children. I think dat is wrong. -Dey ought not to mix dem up, but I ain't goin' to try to separate 'em. -Dat is de reason I voted for de Lincoln Bill. If people do wrong let 'em -be punished accordin' to law no matter what color. - -"Slavery hurt de men who owned de slaves. De Negro was only de shade -tree. De master would set back in de shade and tell de Negro what to do. -I hear so many say, 'I'm free!' But there is only one person who is free -and he or she is de one dat God has set free. God set forth in de heart -of Abraham Lincoln dat every man should earn his bread by de sweat of -his brow. Man is his own free agent. De masters measured out bad measure -and dey got worser in de end dan de slaves. - -"What is ruinin' dis country is de love for money. God is goin' to rule -dis world." - - - - -John McGuire - - - *Interview with John McGuire,* - *Herculaneum, Missouri.* - - _Bondage Was Great Burden_ - -"I was born in Valle Mines in the northern part of St. Francois County. -My mother's name was Sophie McGuire. She was a slave of Henry Bisch and -my father was named Philip McGuire and was owned by John McGuire. I -lives here in Herculaneum and am 74 years old. My father worked in de -mines and my mother worked in and around de house and cooked. She was -more of a house girl. I had three brothers and seven sisters. All my -sisters is dead 'cept two. One of dem lives in De Soto and de other in -St. Louis. One of my brothers lives at Crystal City and one has worked -for over 20 years for de St. Joe Company here at Herculaneum. - -"I'se heard my mother and father talk about what a hard time dey had -when dey was set free and went to housekeeping. First dey moved in a -house dat was already built and den dey built a log cabin. My father dug -de zinc and lead ore to make a living at Valle Mines. He would get so -much a ton and would sometimes make $2 a day and den sometimes he would -not make anything. I lived at Valle Mines till I come of age and den -moved to St. Louis where I worked for 30 years. I worked in a boiler -room, in de steel works, and drove a team. I hauled sand, cinders, -lumber, dirt, etc. I got about $1.50 a day when I worked in St. Louis. I -was married for about 35 years and my wife is dead and didn't have any -children. When I left St. Louis I worked in de mines at Fletcher and den -came over here and have been 'scalawaggin' around since I been here. - -"I 'membered how my mother used to tell about an old colored man who -ground her scissors and he ground dem on both sides and dey would not -cut anything. Dat sure made her mad. I used to have to turn de old -grindstone for my father to get his ax sharp. He like to wore me out. I -feel like I growed up with more freedom now since we has no slavery. I -believe if de colored people had never been brought to dis country dey -would be further developed dan dey is this way. Our people has been -under bondage in dis country for over 200 years. Being in de bondage has -been a great hardship on our race. Dis condition might have some effect -today with some people. Dey might say, 'Well, dis fellow will amount to -nothin' 'cause his parents was slaves.' - -"I can read and write and went to school in Valle Mines at night and -paid for it. It cost $1 a month and I went a part of two terms. I -learned to read and write from my father. My father's master would not -allow him to have any books, but de master's son would steal a book and -when dey was in de mines working I had some free time. My father and de -master's son would go off in one side of de mine and dere learn to read -and write. - -"In some ways I think de young generation is much better off dan I am or -was. But, on de other hand, it seems to me like dey is more rude but as -de younger ones grows up maybe dey will be better. De younger generation -has a greater opportunity, but dey is behind in doing things against the -law. You all knows such like as stealing, killin', robbing and swindling -is going on now more dan when I was a boy. We have some mighty rude -colored children. Dere is several reasons for dis rudeness. It's caused -by letting children go as dey wants to go. De parents gets so dey feels -dat their child is too good to correct. Another reason is a whole lot de -breeding of de children. I think dat since slavery de Negro would have -been better off if he had been put on a reservation to hisself. It would -have come more natural to civilize de Negro dat way dan de way it is -now. Dere is a lot of white men get Negro women and a lot of white women -get Negro men. Dat would never have happened if de races had been -separated. I'se been down in Southeast Missouri and de colored race is -treated pretty bad down dere." - - - - -Eliza Madison - - - *Interview with Eliza Madison,* - *aged 75, Fredericktown, Missouri.* - *Interviewed by J. Tom Miles.* - -"I was born in Stoddard County, Missouri. My mother belonged to John -Sitzes and my father belonged to Lark Abernathy. I can jes remember how -afraid us chillun was of de soldiers. De boss had a big plantation and -raised everything dey ate and wore. We had a cabin dat joined on to the -house. My mother was jus' like a man and worked in de fiel' and made -rails. My aunt wove. I picked up chips. My mother was the type dat they -had to treat good. De master had eight children. There was a white -school of three months. I did not go to school. - -"After de war was over we all worked for twenty-five cents a day but -didn't get paid in money but in food. Mother was sold twice, and my -father was sold away from my mother. I don't 'member anything 'bout my -father. I was 'bout four years old when de war ended. 'Bout all we did -on Sunday was to dig ginseng and fish. One of de slaves would go out to -a dance and get in in de mornin' and he would get a whippin'. - -"After de war some Ku Klux come through our place and de white folks -said they could tell who dey were by de walk. After de war was over de -soldiers were going to take some of de colored women south, so we hid -under de stairway. De soldiers fought to get de slaves to go and my -mother had a scar on her shoulder dat dey made. De soldiers took some of -de slaves south and sold them somewhar' and we never heard from them -again. - -"Black root was a purgative medicine as well as goose grease. For -whooping-cough dey would use honey and alum. - -"At Christmas we'd get candy or a new dress. On one Christmas old -Christine or Santa Clause would wrap up in a blanket and this is how we -got our presents. Down thar de hickory nuts grew big and it was a funny -thing when we found out dat old Christine was giving us our own hickory -nuts. - -"I can't 'member 'bout any hoodoo business but once a Negro man borrowed -a pair of boots from another man and when he returned them thar was a -snake's tooth sticking up through de sole of one of de boots." - - - - -Drucilla and Richard Martin - - - *An Interview with Drucilla Martin,* - *age 102, and Richard Martin,* - *age 92, Poplar Bluff, Missouri.* - -"I'se half Indian and I look it too, and if I wo' gold rings in my ears -and nose I would look just like my mammy did 'cause she was full blooded -Indian. I don' know what kind, but she was big and tall and had black -hair, she could sit on it and it was as coa'se as a mule's tail. She -carried a tom-hawk and eve'y one stepped to one side when they met her -on the turn-pike. She wus from Giles County, Tennessee. Giles County, -Hear Me! And her name was 'Eirar-Lu Ellen'. My father's name was Spencer -Johnson, don't guess I seed much ob him 'cause mammy and him wasn't -married. - -"We stayed on, for Mars Pinter, (Mr. Pointer), from the time I 'member -'till the war closed, and we wus free; and you had better never let Mars -hear you call us slaves. He'd not stand for it; hear me! We didn't farm, -'xactly; Mars Pinter owned the iron works and most of his people worked -in there. Best I 'member we did raise our eats and that wus all 'cause -the nearest trading post wus Nashville, Tennessee, and that wus a long -way, them days. - -"I had nine brothers and sisters, and they wus: Monroe Henderson; he wus -the House servant, Jefferson, Ida, Felia, Laura, Izora, and I don' -'member the other two; guess they died when they wus babies, but all we -was named the same names as Mars Pinter kids; and we played with them, -hear me! we played with them. - -"Then when I wus big 'nuf I wus put to cardin' wool and cotton, we -wusn't paid no money for our work we didn' need none; we had ever'thin' -we needed, and plenty of good stuff to eat, and good warm cloths to -ware. - -"Them 'nigger' boys wus so proud to 'long to Mars Pinter that they would -break up white rocks and scatter them on the turn-pike, and make nice, -white shiny walks for Misses. When the carriage was ordered out for a -drive, first mammy walk out with a white cloth, rub it over the -carriage--huh; better not find a speck of dirt on the carriage. - -"Mammy allus taught all her white and dark children, when interin' the -presence of elders, to make your' 'obedience', (bow), and then, sit -quiet. - -"Men, them days wore long hair too, but sometime they cut it off, if it -got too long and hot. They would turn a milk crock down over their haid -and even it off some. - -"We didn' know nothin' much about the war, we didn't want to leave -Marse, and that wus all the difference it made us. I do 'member 'Ol' -Jeff Davis, come to 'Marse' and say: 'Gib me them niggers and I will -carry them down to Fort Pillow and hide them in the cave until this is -over'; then 'Marse' run them off, and said: 'better not put any of my -people in a cave, they worked for me and made all my money: I gwine to -do right by these people.' - -"Where we lived we never heard tell of a 'form school, never needed -nothin' lake that; didn't know what one wus. - -"One thing I does 'member well, and would like to know if anyone else -was there and 'members it. I went with my 'Missie Pinter' to see them -hang John Brown, he was a 'Whig'; they brought him from the Culpeper -County Court House, in Virginia, and hung him to a beechwood tree, at -Harper's Ferry; on the bank of the James River. Now they sing 'Hung him -to a sour apple tree', but that ain't right. I saw it and I know. - -"I said a while ago we wusn't paid no money, but I did know what it wus -'cause 'Marse' never put lock or key on his cellar-door, and he kept -food and his money in small barrels down there and we could play wif it -and never once did anyone try and take any of it. - -"I learned to iron too, and there wus two women stood there ironing -every day, they sho' could make them purty lace 'broidery underskirts -stand alone. - -"My mammy was in full charge of the house, and all the 'Marse' children, -and when they pass her, she say: 'Lif yo' dress', then if'n she see -little spot dirt or wrinkle, make dem take off all de clothes and -change. Den she say 'Take off you shoe', smell their feet, Huh! She call -'Lisa, bring that foot tub', then she would wash and dry their feet and -put on clean stockings. Mammy wus clean as a new pin. - -"When I got any size to notice I wus dum-confounded to hear my mammy -talk up to the white boys comin' to court 'Missie Pinter's' girls. Mammy -meet them at de door and say: 'What you want?' They say: 'I come to call -on Mis ----'. She say, 'What you got makes you think got right to call -on my fine daughter? What you own? Can you hire her work done? Do you -think my daughter is gwin' to marry any' por' white trash, and have to -work hard all her life?' Then if'n he couldn' give a good account for -himsef, mammy would swing her tom-hawk and yell: 'Be-gone, don' come -back'. 'Nother thing a young man had better not come courtin' in his -shirt sleeve, better have on his coat or mammy would 'back' in he haid. - -"Then after the war wus over, and we wus free, it wusn't hard to find -work. I wus allus honest and religious, 'longed to the Southern Babtist -Church. I got work among the rich white people and traveled with them. -Then I worked as laundress in the U.S. Marine Hospital, in St. Louis, -for seven years; when George Washington was President. I worked on the -'Chas. P. Shoto' steamboat as chamber-maid, and made lots of trips to -Florida. I was maid for Mrs. Busch, in St. Louis, and they wus powerful -rich, they made that beer up there. - -"Richard says, he wus bawn May 8, 1845, on the corner of Beale and Main -Streets, Memphis, Tenn. And I wus bawn May 8, 1835, in Giles County, -Tenn. We neither one had much bad treatment but we is glad slavery is -over." - - *Interview with Richard and Drucilla Martin,* - *Poplar Bluff, Missouri.* - -Called on and talked to Richard and Drucilla Martin, old time negroes, -who were slaves. They talked fluently, really enjoying talking about the -'good days' as they put it, as they say their master was good to them. - -Richard is rather short and wears a beard, which is snow white. He -claims to be something better than ninety years old, he says about -ninety-four or five, and Drucilla is ten years older than Richard. - -About four or five years ago their home which they owned was destroyed -by fire, and having no insurance, they have since been living in a poor -substitute for a house made of pieces of tin, wood, and old boxes, built -under the branches of a tree. - -Richard was in a hurry to go to town and see if their old age pension -checks had come yet and invited us to come back some other time. - -Drucilla said she was the slave of John Pointer. Her mother who was part -Indian wore a ring in her nose and carried a tomahawk, had ten children, -and mothered the ten children of her master's wife. Drucilla does not -remember much about her father, as he was the slave of another family. - -Although Drucilla does not have any education, she can quote verse after -verse from the Bible. She told some gruesome stories of how some of the -masters treated their slaves. She said there never was a book printed -that really told how some, or in fact the majority of the slaves were -beaten and abused. To most masters they were not any more than stock. -She said some of the young girls were beaten until they would die. Some -of the little colored babies that were born out in the field or on the -road were left to starve or be eaten up by the hogs. - -Drucilla said some times their master would rent them out to other white -men to work them if he didn't have anything for them to do. Some masters -would put their feed out in troughs for them just as they were feeding -cattle. Some would give them cotton seed to eat. She said they would go -home and cry and tell their master how they were treated and their -master would tell them they wouldn't have to go work for any one that -did them like that. - -In 1865 when the slaves were freed, Drucilla said she felt all out in -the world as if she did not have a place to go and their master was -afraid to let them stay with him even though they begged to stay, as it -was then against the law. She was sent to St. Louis to do servant work, -for a white family, that was very wealthy, and she stayed with them for -twenty years. Drucilla has been married twice, and is the mother of ten -children, but knows of only one daughter, or rather, she was the last -one she has heard from out of the three that she thinks are still -living, and that was fifty years ago. - - -[Illustration: _Drucilla and Richard Martin_] - -Drucilla Martin was a slave in Giles County, Tennessee; Richard Martin -was a slave in Memphis, Tennessee. - - -The aged old couple are going to receive $8.00 apiece per month old age -pension, and a check for $80.00 back pay. When worker asked Drucilla -what she was going to do with her pension money, she said she was going -to build a little house, "As Mammy is tired living in that shack". - -When we got up to leave, the old Negro mammy ran out and fell down and -kissed our feet. There were two workers stumbling along trying to get -down the rocky path that leaves the little shack, with their eyes full -of tears, and the muscles of their throats tightened, until they could -only wave back, as the feeble voice was heard to ring out over the hill, -"Honey chiles come back to see mammy some more, and she'll give yo all -somethin' out of her garden." - - - - -Hattie Matthews - - - *Interview with Mrs. Hattie Matthews,* - *aged 58, Farmington, Missouri.* - -"Ma mathuh wuz Louisiana Anthony an she married an liv'd in -Libertyville, Missouri, in St. Francois County. She are dead now, but ud -be 'bout 78 if she war livin'. She wuz born into slavery. Ma grandmuther -wuz Harriet Smith, an she wuz born in 'bout 1820 an she war 'bout 40 -years ole wen de War begun. She wuz a slabe near New Madrid, Missouri, -an died wen she wuz 'bout 90 yars ole. Ma grandmuthuh had 14 childr'n an -wen de war ended, her master, Shap Phillips, tak one ob her girls named -Phebe an put her on a hoss an took her away with him an we neber heard -from her agin. We think she wuz taken south ta work fur som'body. When -ma grandmuthuh got free she an my grandfather, who worked fur another -master, bought a small farm near Knob Lick, in St. Francois County, -Missouri. Dey bilt dem a house an bought only 20 acres at a time an -finally had 120 acres. - -"I used to lay wake nights a-lis'nen ta stories dat muthuh an -grandmuthuh ud tell about slabery days. I know a lot ob stories but hab -furgot many ob dem. My, how she cud tell 'bout dose times, an dey ware -true too. Wen ma grandmuthuh got married dey jus jumped ober a -broomstick an dey ware consider'd man an wife. Dis ware de custom den. -De master ud hole de broomstick. I ask grandmuthuh wat she ud a-done had -she fall'n ober de broomstick. She say, 'Well I didn't fall, but jump'd -clear ober hit.' I member dis 'cause hit seemed so funny. Brogan shoes -war wore then. Dey war ob rough leather and de shoes had brass toes. All -de clos wuz wove an de only fancy clos ma grandmuthuh had ware giv'n ta -her by de Missus. - -"Shap Phillips had a good many slabes an grandmuthuh wuz de cook. She -wuz very strong an cook'd in kettles bigg'r dan dey habe now. Whenever a -negro slabe had a baby she had ta work rite on. If she work'd in de fiel -she ud take de baby long and lay hit down in de rail fence corn'r in de -sun. De baby had on only a slip. De master ud ride his hoss in de fiel -an had a horse whip dat wuz platted, an he ud cut de slabes with dis -whip wen de slabes slack'd hup. If de babies cried de muthuh had ta get -de master's permishun fore she cud pick up their baby. - -"De scraps from de white folk's table war all thrown into a kettle. Ma -muthuh ud stan clos by an she ud grab in de kettle with both han's an -eat whateber she got. Den, after all de grown slabes did dis, dey wud -call 'Pot liquor time' an de childr'n ud run to de kettle an drink wat -wuz in de bott'm ob de kettle. Dis wus generally de juice or water frum -greens. Sometime de childr'n got a piece ob cornbread. Dis wuz all de -childr'n got ta eat an of course dey war always hungry. - -"De master had a polly-parrot an dese parrots ud be plac'd ta hear an -watch wat de slabes did. Dey war not always seen by de slabes an wen de -master wuz away de parrots wud member wat had happ'n'd an report it. One -of de slabes wuz bakin' bread an she tok a pan full ob biscuits an hid -it under de cushion of de chair. De ole Missus come in an wuz sick an -she started ta sit down in de chair. De parrot wuz sittin' up dar an -say, 'Missi bissi burn you.' The Missus lifted up de cushion an foun de -pan o bread. She wuz sick and couldn't whip de slabe so she wuz goin' to -habe de master do it wen he came in. De slabe wuz mad so she tok de -parrot an wrung its neck and threw it out hind de house thinkin' she had -kil'd de parrot. - -"De Missus had to go out dare fur somethin' an de parrot say, 'Poor -polly, layin' in de sun.' De master den really beat de slabe wen he came -in. Ma grandmuthuh knew de lady dat dis happ'n'd to in New Madrid. Ma -grandmuthuh got whipp'd only onc't an de master wuz sorry 'cause she -fought back. She wuz strong an a good work'r. Ma grandmuthuh wuz up fur -sale on de block once an dey offer'd several thousand dollars fur her -but she wuz a good worker an she wuz not sold. Wen de rebel soldiers -come de slabes ud hide but wen de Union soldiers com de slabes ud run to -dem. - -"Wen de master had company he ud tak meat skins an grease de mouths ob -all de slabe childr'n. Den wen de company cam de master ud call' all de -slabe children in an say, 'You little rascals have been eating!' He -wanted to create de impression dat he wuz feedin his slabes better dan -de other masters round dare. - -"Grandmuthuh said dey had lots ob hoodoo business. I ask her why dey -didn't hoodoo de white folks ta get dem out ob de way. She said de -negroes couldn't hoodoo de white peoples 'cause dey had strait hair. It -wuz somethin' 'bout de oil in de hair. White folks habe ta wash dere -hair ta get de oil out, but negroes habe ta put oil in deir hair. But de -slabes sure could hoodoo each other. Somebody who wanted ta hoodoo -somebody else wud tak snakes an frogs an pulverize um an put de stuff in -a bottle. Dey den dug a hole in de groun under de step an buried de -bottle in de hole. When de person (for whom the hoodoo was intended) -took a step ober dis spot dey wud habe pains in deir legs. Ma -grandmuthuh cud see de snakes come up inside deir legs an dey had to cut -a hole in deir legs ta let de snakes out. Sometimes dey ud get a person -ta take de snakes an frogs from a person, and den de person who put de -hoodoo under de step or porch ud lose deir charm and die. Ma grandmuther -say she saw many a frog an snake come out ob a person's mouth. De slabes -were turrible ta each other. All such as dis went on in de dose days. -This here hoodoo business still goes on down in Mississippi. I'm shure -glad I don't live down thar. Ma cousin got into an argument with a negro -girl down thar an they couldn't settle hit. So she (my cousin) wrote to -somebody who wrote back an tole ma cousin all 'bout this here other girl -such as her amount of insurance, etc." - - - - -Letha Taylor Meeks - - - *Interview with Letha Taylor Meeks,* - *Smelterville, Missouri.* - -"My full name is Letha Taylor Meeks, an' I'se bahn down in Panola -County, Mississippi close to da Tallahatchie Ribbah. Mah fathuh an' -mothuh wuz Andy and Susan Tayluh. We belonged to Ole Massa Billie -Welborn an' our Misses wuz Ole Miss' Cloe. - -"Dey had a fine big house, we call it de mansion. Dey had po'ches an' -galleries bof. Der wuz trees all aroun', pine trees an' cedahs, an' oak -trees. An' de yawd wuz full a flower bushes.--big snowballs an' lilacs, -an' rows of flags, an honeysuckle vines, wid de mockin' birds an' doves -a singin' roun'--an dey wuz jay birds too. An der wuz big vegitable -gahdens an fruit trees. In de sto' room in de fall der wuz a'ways bags -full er dried apples an' peaches, an' pumpkin an cahn, strings o' onions -a hanging up, an heaps o turnips an' sweet 'taters, an bins fulla -'taters. An' they wuz lotsa cabbages an' collards in shelters in de -gahden. - -"Miss' Cloe dress mighty fine. She wear calico prints roun' home, but -when she dress up she wear silks an' satins' with hoop skirts an a -rare-back hat tied unduh her chin. - -"When de white folks go tuh church at Fredonia us cullud folks go too -but we sits up in de gallery. We didden hab no school but sometime de -preacher an his wife 'ud come to stay wid de white folks an dey'd a'ways -hab classes fo' us chillern. One time dey stayed dar nearly a yeah. - -"Us chillern usta play hide an seek, honey on de bee ball, frog in de -meadow, an' eberthing playable. Ah learned tuh spin an ah'd fill quills -till ah had a whole basket full an' I'd wind de broches. Mah mothaw -hepped with de weavin. Dey made all our clothes--'member one time dey -made sech fine gray homespun for de men's pants. Ole Mothuh Ret was -seamstress for de white folks--we called her Mothuh Ret--her name was -Henrietta. De looms an' spinning wheels was in a big room down in de -basement. Dere wuz a big fireplace in de room. - -"Mothuh helped wuth de cookin, too. An ah'd help her on cleanin' days. -Our folks shore had fine funicher an' things, an' de fines' silver an -candles all ovah de house. We made de candles; put a string in de mold, -den po' de grease in--Dere was fine candles for company. - -"'For de sojers came all de silver an' fine things wuz hid. Dey had two -basements--de big one unduh de whole house n'en a small one in -back--unduh de small one wuz a cellah, an in dat cellar dey hide all de -things--barrels o' taters, sacks o' dried fruits an vegetables, de meats -an' lawd, en puvisions--an de silver till dey had it full up--den dey -puts back de puncheon boahds--an' fills in wuth dirt jes like it warn't -nuthin unduh there. - -"Dey had two sons go off tuh war. Columbus came back when de wah wuz -ovah but Wallace died wid measles. When he leave to go tuh war, he tell -me he gwine tuh come back, wid Lincoln's head on a stick but de Lawd -sent him back wid his head in a coffin. Dey had all us cullud folks come -through de house to see young Massa lyin dar in de big front room in his -coffin. - -"Dey was mo dan a hundred slaves. Dey wus three cabins close to de -mansion an our fambly lived dar. In de quawters dey wuz 'bout fifty -cabins but dat wuz 'bout five mile fum us--over on de udduh place. Young -Massa Willyum live in de big house ovah der. He didden go tuh wah an one -time de sojers come an' look for him. Dey cain't fin' him so dey burn de -house down 'cause dey think he's in dar--but dey nebber bothuh our -place. - -"Fust time ah ebber seed de Yankees, it wuz one Saturday--I went out tuh -let de calves into de grove. When ah look down de road an ah see one man -come roun de cornuh, den anudduh--den mo--till ah see it de whole ahmy -comin--Den ah's skeered an ah runs back to de house ahollerin', 'De -Yankees is comin'.' Dey comes on up de road an into de yawd an' one man -grab me an' he say 'Is you de little gal what run to tell um to hide -'cause we's comin'?' Ah tells um I'se de little gal whut run but ah -never tells nobody to hide. I is sho' skeered. He hol's me while de mens -look aroun' but dey don' tarry long. - -"De nex' day, dat wuz Sunday, Ole Forrest come by wid his Rebel -sojers--an' dey stole Massa's fine mules. Massa had a fine pair o' -matched mules, dey wuz iron gray an' he druv dem to de carriage. Well, -early nex' mornin' de feeder, he wuz Henry Nance, he come to our cabin -an asks my fathuh is he seed Gains and Fox--dat's de mules. My fathuh -say no dey mus' be out in de grove, but he say no, he hunt an' he call -an' he whistle fo' em but he can't start 'um no place. Dey hunt some mo' -den say dey better go tell Massa. After a little Massa say 'Henry an' -Andy, you don' need tuh go to do fiel' dis mornin'.' Dey knows whut dat -mean an' dey jes sit dar. Den Massa go out to de dogwood thicket an' he -cut a bundle o' switches, all he cud carry. He take de men out to de -bahn lot, has 'em take off dey shirts an' he wears out all dose -switches. Den he say iffen dose mules not in de lot nex' Monday mawnin' -de gonna git double de dose. Massa think dey sell de mules to de sojers -an' pocket de money. But by nex' Monday mawnin' my fathuh an' Henry -Nance is in Memphis--dey runned away. - -"An' de nex' time de Yankee sojers cum through dar, Ole' Uncle 'Lias tuk -Massa's fine carriage an' two mules an' him an' three women escaped to -Memphis. - -"When de war is ovah Massa call us all up an' tell us we's free. He say -to my mathuh 'Now Sook',--her name's Susan but dey all call her Sook--he -say 'Now Sook, you is free as I is'--but we stay dar jes de same. An' -Massa he writ to Memphis fo' mah fathuh tuh come back, but he don' come -so Massa go tuh Memphis tuh git him. Massa's got a eatin' cancer an he -want my fathuh tuh come back. My fathuh wuz a'ways kind of a fohman. -Massa'd tell him whut he wanted dis group o' men to do, an' whut he -wanted dat group tuh do, an mah fathuh saw they don it. So when Massa -goes fo' him he comes back. - -"In Memphis he tells Massa he knows whar one o' his hosses is whut wuz -stolen. Massa tells him kin he swear to it, he kin have it. So mah -fathuh goes to de law 'bout dat hoss--Dey asks him can he 'dentify -it--an' he say it got a white star on its face an' a white stockin on -lef' hin' foot. So he git de hoss. - -"I'se married 63 years ago--got de license outa Sardis. 'Bout twenty -year ago ah went back dar tuh visit--tuk some o' my chillern an' showed -'em de chuch dere at Fredonia whar we usta 'tend service. - -"Dey war mos'ly perty good to us down dah--'cose we nevah cud go nowhars -'thout a pass or we'd git whupped. Dey had a doctor woman to take care -o'us iffen we's sick. Her name's Miss Ellen--An' dey's good an' careful -'bout womens when dey's gonna have a baby. She wuz jes given light work -to do, 'cause dey wanted big healthy famblies. - -"One time dey wuz Ku Klux come to de do. Ah nebber seed em 'cause ah run -an' crawl unner de bed, but ah heerd um say, 'Please gi' me some water, -I ain't had a drink since de battle o' Shiloh.' - -"Ole Jeff Davis sho' made it hawd fo' de cullud folks but wid Abe -Lincoln an' de grace ob de Lawd we's all free now." - - - - -Wylie Miller - - - *Interview with Wylie Miller,* - *Cape Girardeau Co., Missouri.* - -"I'se gonna be 83 cum nex' Nobember. Mah mammy's name wuz Easter. We -belong to Ole Massa Henry Miller so we goes by de name o' Miller. Mah -daddy's name wuz Israel an he belong to a neighbor name Brown so he go -by de name o' Brown. Ole Missus name wuz 'Frohnie an dey had three boys -whut went off tuh war. Dey live in a two-story frame house--dat down -close to Bloomfiel'. - -"De fust time we ever seed sojers, dey wuz a big crowd o' 'em cum up to -our place. When us chillern seed 'em we crawl unner de house--white and -black, all o' us. De Blue Coats look unner dere an' dey say, 'Come out -o' der, you, or we kill all o' you'. We's sure scared but we crawls out. -Dey didden hurt us none, but dey 'rests Ole Boss. Dey takes him up -stairs an' acks him things. I spects dey didden do him no harm but dey -keeps him locked up. - -"Dey wuz a feller hangin' roun' dere named Bolen, Nas' Bolen--he wuz a -bush-wacker and we seed dem Blue coats chase 'em across a ten acre fiel' -but dey didden catch 'em. Den dey take all de bes' meat in de smoke -house--we sho' did hate to stan' dere an' see 'em cut down all dem good -hams. An dey had de women folks inside a cookin' fo' 'em, an a bakin -bread. An' de sojers wuz all roun' de bahn an de gran'ries feedin our -cahn to dey hosses. When de sojers lef', my mammy an' a feller name Nash -Miller escape an' go off wid de sojers. - -"Den one time de Seeseshes, under Marmaduke, come through dar on dey way -to Cape. De Blue Coats was camped at Round Pond an dar de Rebel sojers -run into 'em an' dar's whar they had de big battle. De Rebels nebber -bother us none nuther 'cept jes for gin. - -"When de war was ober, Ole Massa call us all up to de fron' porch and -tell us now de war is ober an we is free, but it don' make much -diffrence. We stays dar jes de same for few year. Ole Massa wuz allus -good to his cullud folks, but fo' a spell he had a overseer. He wuz a -Denmarker an' his name wuz Martindale an' he wuz tuff. - -"I 'members one night de Ku Kluxers came--dey wants a drink o' water. -One man say 'Gimme some water. I ain't had no drink sence de battle of -Shiloh.' I had to carry water for him 'bout ez fur as fum here to cross -de street and dat man drink five big buckets full an say he want mo'. My -young Massa Wes, he step up, an' tell um to leave here an he say 'Wylie, -don't you carry no mo water.' Dey don' wanta go--dey had on white gowns -button' up de front wid black buttons an' masks on dey faces. - -"Young Wes, he had a pistol. He call it a Remington an' he jes es soon -shoot 'em as to say 'Hodey-do!' So he tell 'em again, 'Git out fum here, -I know you.' Den dey goes but dey say to me, 'Boy, we don' wanna ketch -you out at night'--an' didden." - - - - -Lewis Mundy - - - *Interview with Lewis Mundy,* - *Hannibal, Missouri.* - - _Men Growing Weaker And Wiser_ - -Lewis Mundy, now living on West Center Street, Hannibal, Missouri, was -born in slavery on the farm of John Wright, five miles north of La -Belle, Lewis County, Missouri. He has lived in Hannibal more than thirty -years, and has a wide acquaintance among both whites and colored people. -The following is his story of his life. - -"Mr. Wright had eleven slaves, my mother and ten of us children. Mr. -Wright had eight children. My father was owned by Billy Graves, whose -farm was joined to de master's farm. I don't know where he come from, -but mother was brought here by de Wrights from Virginia. Our master and -mistress was good to us, but of course my own mother had to whip me -often. She used a whip made from twisted buckbrush twigs and did it -sting! - -"I worked in de fields most generally. When I was small I rode one of de -oxen and harrowed de fields. When I was about ten or eleven I plowed -with oxen. I'se plowed many times with a moldboard plow with an iron -share on it. - -"We never wanted for clothes very bad. We wore long shirts dat reached -to de knees until we was twelve or fourteen years old. Dem wool shirts -sure was warm. We had one pair of shoes a year. Many times I done went -after de cows barefoot when dere was more dan a foot of snow on de -ground. It didn't seem to hurt me. I was toughened to it. - -"After we was freed mother stayed with master for about a year, den she -moved over toward Newark and worked out till she got straightened out so -she could keep house for herself. I stayed dere for a while longer until -I got work on a farm at fifty cents a day. After a while dey paid me -seventy-five cents a day. We didn't get nothin' from our master after de -war. I 'member de Bowans, though, give dere slaves eighty acres of land. - -"I 'members dere was a Ku Klux Klan in de county, but dey never bothered -me none. I tended to my own business and never bothered nobody. I never -was arrested in my life and I never gives de policemen no trouble. - -"I got married when I was about twenty and settled in Jetto in Knox -County and worked on a farm. We had two children. One of dem died years -ago, and I am living here with my other daughter. After a while we moved -to Palmyra. I worked 'round on farms until about 1903, den we moved here -to Hannibal. I worked in de Burlington shops for seventeen years, till -dey told me I was too old to work any more. I is getting a pension now -for more dan a year. Dat sure 'nough helps a lot. - -"I has voted ever since I was old enough. Dey used to tell me how to -vote. I always belonged to de Baptist Church and belongs to de Helping -Hand Baptist now. My mistress belonged to de old time Christian Church -and I used to drive her to church with a bay mare she had. - -"We used to sing, 'I Am Bound for the Promised Land', and 'Heart (Hark) -From The Tombs Mournful Sound', My mother used to sing, 'You All Ought -To Have Been There,' 'Roll, Jordan, Roll', and 'Do, Lord, Do Remember -Me.' Dey don't sing them old songs no more. - -"Mankind: De young folks now days ain't like we used to be. Why, in -Monticello dey used to have a log jail, but now dey is got one made of -stone and iron. Dey just can't hold 'em no more. I guess it's right dat -dis world is growing weaker and wiser. But de young folks has a better -chance. Look at de big fine schools dey has now. Dey ought to get along -better dan dey do." - - - - -Malinda Murphy - - - *Interview with Malinda Murphy,* - *Farmington, Missouri.* - *Sent in by J. Tom Miles,* - *Farmington, Mo.* - -"I was born right here and was about four years old at de time of de -war. We was owned by the Hills at Farmington. My mother plowed in the -fields, and hauled wood in de snow. We had no shoes and made tracks of -blood in de snow. Us little tots had to go all over de field and pick up -feathers. De mistress would go along with a stick and say, 'Here is -another feather to pick up.' - -"When de soldiers came we had a good meal. De soldiers had on blue -coats, and when dey came we would be switching off de flies with a long -pole with paper on the end. De soldiers would then say 'We don' need -that, come on and eat with us.' - -"We wore linsey dresses and all slept together and were bound to keep -warm. When de war was over we was free to go but de only thing we had -was a few rags. So we walked to Valle Mines, twenty-four miles north in -Jefferson County. We walked it twice 'cause we would carry a few rags a -little piece and den go back after de rest. - -"At Valle Mines we could make a little money digging ore and selling it -to de store. De mines were on de surface and mother dug in de mines. -After we had gone to Valle Mines, Overton Hill, de son of de Hills, came -up dere and asked mother where she had hid de money and silver during de -war. She told him but after three weeks he came back in a buggy and took -mother with him to de plantation and she showed Overton where to dig -close to a cedar tree to find de money and silver." - - - - -Margaret Nickens - - - *Interview with Margaret Nickens,* - *Hannibal, Missouri.* - - _"Mag" Preaches Thrift_ - -Margaret Nickens, now living at 1644 Broadway, Hannibal, Missouri, was -born in slavery on the farm of Pleasant McCann about six miles from -Paris in Monroe County, Missouri. She was a daughter of George Morrison -and wife, slaves of Pleasant McCann. The following is her story as she -told it: - -"Mr. McCann was a rich slave holder. His daughter, Georgia Ann, was -married to a Mr. Dawson and lived in Liberty, Clay County. When I was -'bout eight years old de Dawsons come back to Paris to visit. Dey had -two children den so dey took me as a nurse for de children. Mr. Dawson -didn't believe in slaves and he didn't own none. My mistress had only -one slave to do de cooking and she took me for to be de nurse. - -"De baggage and slaves and other things dey hauled in a covered wagon -and de white folks rode in a rockaway. When we was fixing to leave, dere -was lots of people standing 'round. My mother had to stand dere like I -wasn't hers and all she could say was, 'Be a good girl, Margaret.' - -"When we was at Liberty de first soldiers we seen was General Price's -men and later we seen lots of Union soldiers. - -"De day dat de slaves was freed Mr. Dawson told me dat I was as free as -he was and dat he brought me here and he would take me back if I wanted -to go. I said, 'If I still have a mother and father I wants to go to -dem.' - -"When we got back to Paris my mistress Georgia Ann said, 'Oh, that black -good-for-nothing lazy gal, I should have left her at Liberty, but Mr. -Dawson would bring her.' I didn't like her 'cause she wasn't very good -to me and now I don't want to meet my mistress in either hell or heaven. - -"I was about eleven years old den. We moved from dere to Palmyra. My -father split rails and built fences (they didn't have wire fence in -those days), and shucked corn and worked on farms or whatever kind of -job he could get to do. My father didn't get no land nor money like some -of de folks did. Most of de white folks was good to de slaves and didn't -whip dem unless dey was sure 'nough bad. - -"My father come from Virginia and my mother from Kentucky when dey was -little. Dey never seen dere parents no more. Dey watched for a long time -among de colored people and asked who dey was when dey thought some body -looked like dere parents, but never could find dem. Dey was so small -when dey left, dey didn't even remember dere names. - -"I have been working for de Col. Dan Dulany and de Mahan families here -in Hannibal for three generations, more'n sixty years. I'm not working -nowhere now since Mr. Mahan died about two years ago. - -"I am saving my money, what little I has, but de younger folks now days -don't save anything. Dey just want a good time. I tell dem to save for a -rainy day even if it's only an umbrella, because it will rain some day." - -Margaret Nickens is called "Mag" by her friends. She is about -eighty-five years old and lives alone in a home that she owns. She -reared and educated one daughter who taught school over a period of -forty years in the Negro public school in Hannibal. The daughter died -eight years ago. - - - - -Eliza Overton - - - *Eliza Overton, age 88.* - *Interviews with Maggie Kennedy,* - *John Franks, and Emma Body,* - *Farmington, Missouri.* - -(_Note:_ Since Eliza Overton, an ex-slave, is now with her daughter, -Mrs. Mamie Robinson, in Detroit, the following information was gained -from interviews with Mrs. Overton's children now living in Farmington. -They are: Mrs. Maggie Kennedy, age 66; John Franks, age 56; and Mrs. -Emma Body, age 71. The oldest of the three children can recall life -during these days and the others recall stories told them by their -parents.) - -"Our muthuh, Eliza, was born a slave in 1849, on da farm of her boss, -Mr. Madden in New Tennessee, Ste. Genevieve County, Missouri. Eliza's -muthuh wuz also a slave. Muthuh wuz sol' with our grandmuthuh to John -Coffman of near Coffman, Missouri, in Ste. Genevieve County. Mr. Coffman -had thousands of acres. He had three plantations an' one wuz at -Libertyville, Missouri. He had 'bout two hundred slaves. The negroes war -tak'n frum one plantashun ta the other, and our grandmuthuh work'd at -all three places. 'Ole man Coffman' wuz a mean ole slave hol'er. He war -afraid of his slaves an' had some one else ta do da whippin'. They war -rougher on ma aunt Eleanor, cause she war stubborn. They wud punish de -slaves severely fur 'membrance. They whoop'd with a rawhide whop an' -trace chains. Wilson Harris wuz whooped at a tree onc't an' when dey got -thro' he say he wud fight. They whop him some mor' 'til he was weak an' -bleedin'. The other slaves had to grease his shirt ta take it off his -back ta keep frum tearin' off de flesh. We can go down thar now and pick -out trees whar the slaves war tied an' whipp'd. The trees died on de -side whar de slaves war tied. There are three trees on de Coffman farm -that I seen dead on one side, an' sum' war in the yard. Thar is one -clos' to the Houck Railroad Station thar. - -"When John Coffman was sick he say he wuz goin' ta ride 'Jap', a roan -hoss, into heaban. So he ask us ta take good care of 'Jap'. I know -Coffman didn't go ta heaban 'cause he died an' lef' 'Jap' here. - -"Mr. Coffman had a whole row of slave cabins. Our cabins war small an' -we had a corded bed, trundle bed ta slip unda' the big bed ta save room, -home made split bottom chairs, tin plates, wood'n boxes, an' a -fireplace. John Coffman gave us a 'lowance of food. We had hogsheads an' -jowls. Many tha time we ran short on food so's one night muthuh went out -to whar the hogs war. Mr. Coffman had so many hogs he didn't know how -many he had. She had da water hot an' the hogs war a long ways from Mr. -Coffman's house. So she hit a hog in da head with the ax an' kill'd it. -Afta' killin' it she went to the cabin ta get the water an' when she -kum' bak one of the other slaves hed stole de dead hog. So she hit -another one in de head an' after fixin' it hid the hog under de puncheon -floor of the cab'n. This was done offen. Mr. Coffman use ta kill 'bout -one hundred hogs at one time an' den put dem in de smoke-house. Ma -muthuh ud get the key to the smoke-house an' load up an' carry some meat -home. - -"Ma Aunt Comfort tole de white boy ta thro' a knife at ma muthuh. The -boy hit ma muthuh jus' 'bove de eye an' den grandmuthuh whop'd Aunt -Comfort fur tellin' the white boy to do this. - -"In ever cab'n thar war fiddles an' on Sunday we could have a good time. -One of de games we wud play out in frunt of the cab'n was 'Swing-Ole -Liza Single'. This here game wuz play'd by havin' two rows line up an' a -man wud dance up or down the line an' swing each one. We wud all sing -an' pat our han's an' feet ta keep time for the dance. - -"Thar wuz some preachin' goin' on in the cab'ns an' out under the arbors -on Saturday nights an' Sunday. The preacher wuz a slave too. Two songs -that we 'member they sung war: 'We'll Bow Around the Altar--Whil'st My -Lord Answers Prayer', and 'Git in the Chariot and Ride Right-Along'. - -"Our fauthur wuz also a slave of a Mr. Patterson but he wus treat'd -well. When Mr. Patterson died our fauther was will'd ta Mr. Patterson's -daughter. Our fauthur, Jacob Franks, wuz a trusted negro an' a teamster -who drove frum Ste. Genevieve ta the plantashun. He used ta swim the -river 'Aux Vases with his team. He'ud bring bak things frum Ste. -Genevieve that war hard ta git. Salt wuz hard ta git at this time. - -"Our muthuh, Eliza, married Jacobs Franks wen she wuz 16 years ole jus' -after she wuz free. She wuz always rather puny an' wuz worth very little -as a slave. Onc't she was sold with three others an' brot' only $50. Our -muthuh has 5 children livin', 19 great grandchildren, and two great -grandchildren, Paul Evans, 6, and Andres, 3. Our fauthur died 43 years -ago an' our muthuh married a Mr. Overton an' he is also dead now. - -"A Mr. Jones bought our aunt an' tok' her ta Shelby County, Missouri. -Our aunt had two children by Mr. Jones. One of 'em wuz so white dat Mr. -Jones couldn't sell him fur a slave. - -"When de slaves war freed, we war tole ta go anywhar we pleas'd. -For'nately muthuh married at onc't, but others did not care ta leave -thar way of livin' 'cause they had no money, no homes, and did not know -how ta do thar own work. But Jim Blackwell, who had been a slave fur -John Coffman, saved up a lot of food in his cab'n an' then when he was -freed, he went out in da woods an' built him a home of his own. He cut -down de trees an' made his cab'n thar an' liv'd. - -"I hear a woman stan' up an' say we would be bettah off today in -slavery. I say,'Why?' She say: 'You would hab ta look aftah nothin' of -your welfare.' 'If that's what she wuz talkin' 'bout', I said, 'ma -fauthuh wuz ten years ole fore he put on a pair of pants. He had ta wear -wooden shoes an' a tow shirt.' I wud not liv' twenty-four hours, bein' a -slave now. I wud' not habe stood it with ma temper." - - - - -Delicia Ann Wiley Patterson (Lucinda) - - - *Interview with Delicia Patterson,* - *St. Louis, Missouri.* - - _Delicia Had Some Temper_ - -The subject of this sketch is Delicia Ann Wiley Patterson, better known -as Lucinda Patterson, 92 years of age and lives in a 3 room kitchenette -apartment at 2847 Delmar Boulevard, apartment 103. - -The old woman is a very neat little brown skinned, white haired person. -She lives alone in her neatly furnished snug little quarters. When the -writer introduced herself and asked for an interview, Lucinda seemed -rather peeved and she said: - -"I'm hot, and mad because the landlord sent the paper hanger here and -started to clean up my apartment, then come and taken him away before he -finished, because I am old. - -"I got plenty temper and I been sick, and when I get mad I get sick all -over again. I turned off the radio, 'cause I don't want nobody talkin' -to me and I don't want to talk to nobody, I've told my history enough. I -don't want to tell it no more anyhow, and especially today the way I -feel." - -But she seemed too good a subject to let go on with a merely perturbed -mood, so I visited with her until she was in good humor, and very -willingly gave me the following story: - -"I was born in Boonville, Missouri, January 2, 1845. My mother's name -was Maria and my father's was Jack Wiley. Mother had five children but -raised only two of us. I was owned by Charles Mitchell until I was 15 -years old. They were fairly nice to all of their slaves and they had -several of us. I only got whipped once in the whole 15 years there, and -that was because I was working in the garden with one of my owner's -daughters and I pulled up something that she did not want pulled up, so -she up and slapped me for it. - -"I got so mad at her, I taken up a hoe and run her all the way in the -big house, and of course I got whipped for that. I did not even have to -sleep in the cabins. I slept on a pallet in the bedroom with old marse's -children. I was a pet anywhere I worked, because I was always very neat -and clean, and a good worker. - -"When I was 15 years old, I was brought to the courthouse, put up on the -auction block to be sold. Old Judge Miller from my county was there. I -knew him well because he was one of the wealthiest slave owners in the -county, and the meanest one. He was so cruel all the slaves and many -owners hated him because of it. He saw me on the block for sale, and he -knew I was a good worker so when he bid for me, I spoke right out on the -auction block and told him: 'Old Judge Miller don't you bid for me, -'cause if you do, I would not live on your plantation, I will take a -knife and cut my own throat from ear to ear before I would be owned by -you.' - -"So he stepped back and let someone else bid for me. My own father knew -I was to be for sale, so he brought his owner to the sale for him to buy -me, so we could be together. But when father's owner heard what I said -to Judge Miller, he told my father he would not buy me, because I was -sassy, and he never owned a sassy niggah and did not want one that was -sassy. That broke my father's heart, but I couldn't help that. Another -nigger trader standing right beside my father's owner said, I wouldn't -own a nigger that didn't have some spunk. So I was sold to a Southern -Englishman named Thomas B. Steele for $1500. He had an old slave he had -in his home for years as their housekeeper, and his wife did not like -her, and he had to sell her to keep peace at home so he put me in his -buggy and taken me home to his wife and told her, 'I bought you another -girl, Susianna, but I don't want you to lay the weight of your finger on -her when she disobeys. Let me know and I will punish her myself.' - -"I lived in that family until after the Civil War was over. Mr. Steele's -wife's people had a big family and they visited the Steeles a great -deal. Mr. Tom didn't like them because they were Yankees and the Steeles -were Union. So one time Mr. Tom was going away on a trip and he knew -when he was gone, his wife would have all of her folks in the home -visiting, and that was against his wishes. He told me to keep tab on -every time her relatives come to the house and how long they stayed, and -tell him when he come back home, and that he would leave orders in the -home to let me work in the field, so I would not have to bother with -that great big family. When he left all his wife's folks come right down -on our plantation, so I had to work in the house for them so hard, I did -not have time to even look at the field. - -"When old boss come home I told him, I had not worked in the field and -why. Him and his wife had a big fight about that, and she hated me for a -long time, and said, the idea of her husband taking a nigger's word to -hers and mistreat her on account of it. But he did not let her bother me -about nothing, so I stayed on with them until one day, while I had a fly -brush in my hand fanning flies while they ate, she told him something I -done she didn't like. Just to please her, he taken the fly brush out of -my hand and just tapped me with it. It didn't hurt me a bit, but it made -me so mad I just went straight to the kitchen, left all the dishes, put -on my sunbonnet and run away. I stayed two weeks. He sent everybody he -thought knew where I was after me, and told them to tell me if I would -only come on back home, no one would ever bother me anymore. I hid in -the woods that whole two weeks and was not afraid. I would be afraid out -in those woods now, but I wasn't then. At night I would come up to some -of the slave cabins who were my friends and eat and stay all night. So I -went back home after my 2 weeks off as a runaway nigger and no one ever -bothered me any more either. I came to St. Louis with them, during the -Civil War. - -"When freedom was declared Mr. Steele told me that I was as free as he -was. He said I could leave them if I please, or could stay, that they -wanted me and would be glad to have me if I would stay and his wife -said, course she is our nigger. She is as much our nigger now as she was -the day you bought her 2 years ago and paid $1500 for her. That made me -mad so I left right then. Since she was so smart. Her husband told her, -now Sue you might as well face it. There are no more slaves and won't -ever be any more, regardless of how much we paid for them. So just quiet -yourself down, she don't have to stay here if she don't want to, but -till this day some of their children come to visit me, but they never -give me anything ever. - -"I hired myself out to a family named Miller's at $3.00 a week, and -lived on the place. I had a baby about 3 years old. I married before the -war and when my baby was 2 weeks old they taken my husband in the army. -He died in the army. I worked for the Millers about 11 months. One day -Mrs. Miller misplaced her silver thimble and she accused me of stealing -it. She did not tell me that but she told the white nurse girl, and the -nurse told me. I got so mad at her for that, 'cause I never stole -anything in my whole life and never been accused of stealing, so I quit. -They begged me to stay and offered to raise my salary, I told them I -would not work for anyone who felt I would steal. The very next day she -found her thimble in the nursery where she remembered she put it -herself, but forgot about it at the time. She thought it was lost. - -"I don't know what the ex-slaves expected, but I do know they didn't get -anything. After the war we just wandered from place to place, working -for food and a place to stay. Now and then we got a little money, but a -very little. I only voted once in my life and that was when working for -Mr. Gerhart. He was a real estate dealer and he taken me to the polls -and showed me how to vote for a Republican president. It has been so -long ago I don't even remember who the president was, but I do know he -got elected. I think the time will soon be when people won't be looked -on as regards to whether you are black or white, but all on the same -equality. I may not live to see it but it is on the way. Many don't -believe it, but I know it. - -"My father's owner's children use to take my father in their basement -and teach him to read in a blue back spelling book. I never got any -education. My English is good because I boarded all the first Negro -school teachers and Negro principals St. Louis ever had for years. -Charlie Brown, the late Hutchinson Inge, Clarice Hubbard, Wm. Turner and -Chas. Newton, the old pioneer Negro teachers had their meals in my home. -I had a lovely home, and have lived well in my time right here in St. -Louis. I am a member of Central Baptist Church and been there for years. -I think this young generation should advance much faster than they do. -Their advantages are very good, but they don't seem to be appreciative -of them. If I would of had their chance in my day, I really would make -good use of it and improve every moment of my life. - -"Charlie Brown started me to attending night school, but I couldn't keep -my mind on my studies, I was always thinking of home and my business. I -was afraid the girl that helped would forget to grind the coffee for -breakfast or fail to put everything on the table for breakfast next -morning. Many of the teachers had a great ways to go and had to have an -early start, and I could not afford to be using the time in the morning -doing the things that should be done at night. I always believed in -doing things as they should be done, on time. - -"That's why my services were valuable, any place I worked, whether as a -slave or free, and I still stand by that idea. I have done laundry work -so satisfactory that I got $5.00 for doing up one white dress, 50c each -for embroidery skirts and 25c a piece for vests. I never did work for -nothing but wealthy white people." - - - - -Marilda Pethy - - - *Interview with Marilda Pethy,* - *Montgomery City, Missouri.* - - _Sold At 6 Weeks Old_ - -Marilda Pethy, a former slave now living in Montgomery City, Mo., is a -coal black woman with distinctly negroid features. Her voice and manner -of speaking are vividly reminiscent of the negro of the "Old South". She -lives with her daughter, Polly, and numerous grandchildren whom she -tries to rule with an iron hand. This does not work so well with the -younger generation which largely disregards the irate old woman. All -this lends quite an air of belligerency to the tumble-down building that -houses them. - -Polly and Marilda sat in the shade of a mulberry tree where the former -was ostensibly doing her washing not far from the big iron kettle where -she heated her water. - -"Yas'sum, I sure remembers dem days", Marilda replied as the questioning -began. "Why, I seen people handcuffed together and driv 'long de -Williamsburg road like cattle. Dey was bought to be took south. I had -two brothers and two sisters sold and we never did see dem no more. I -was born in 1857, April first, on a farm two miles south of -Williamsburg, on a farm dat belonged to William Hayes. My mother was -Louisa Hayes from Memphis. She never seen her mother or father and -didn't know her name, so she just went by de white folks' name. You know -dat's how dey done in dem days with names. She never had no brothers or -sisters here. She was sold when she was six weeks old. Father, he -belonged to Billy Martin and he was Sam Martin. He run off to de war -'cause he was tired of bein' whipped and slashed. So he jes' run off and -joined de army. - -"I was sold with mother when I was six weeks old. We went back to see de -old place after we was free. Dat place has been sold and torn down. It -had a tall white double log house. Dere was three cabins, it was a large -place. De John Bain place, dey calls it de Jeff Jones place, ten miles -north of Williamsburg, had de same kind of a house but dey had just two -cabins. De Bain place was not so large but dey had a right smart of -land. - -"We done right well. Dey give us cornbread and buttermilk in a tin can. -We crumbled de cornbread up in de buttermilk and dat's all we ever had -to eat. Yas'sum, we generally had 'nough. Well, on Sunday mornings we -had biscuits made out of dis stuff dat dey feed cows--shorts, dat's it. -We had biscuits made out of shorts and sorghum. Dey was plenty of it. We -had meat once in a while. Dey was dead oodles of prairie chickens and -patridges den but de wild pigeons was hard to kill. We never did get -none of dat meat. Christmas never meant no more to us dan any other day. -Dey give mother sorghum and shorts to make gingersnaps. - -"Dey had a big back log in de fireplace and a forestick and we put de -wood in between. It was my job to take care of de dog irons. Dey was -kept shinin' with grease. De missus would say, "Marilda, grease de dog -irons!' I had to grease dem all over, too. I taken care of de children. -Mother done everything. Dey had two cooks but both of dem done all kinds -of work. Mother was de regular cook for Mrs. Hayes. - -"Old Miss sold de other four children end sent 'em south. Mother and me -brought $1,200. When I was nine or ten years old I was put up on de -block to be sold. I 'member dat just as well. Hit was just a piece cut -out of a log and stood on end. Dey was offered $600 but my mistress -cried so much dat master did not sell me. Freedom come soon after dat. - -"I often wish dat some of de younger race had lived through dat time. -Dey wouldn't have been so sassy and impudent as dey is now. De older -people'd have done something 'bout it, too." (Marilda's tone and facial -expression left no doubt as to what the older people would have done.) - -"Dey was a battle on Freeman up on Grand Prairie. Dat's northwest of -Williamsburg, up where de Mattocks and Harrisons lived. It was right -where de Ridgeways and de Jones's lived. Dey was fightin' in de evening -and dey fit all night. I took de baby upstairs on de porch and listened -to de fighting. 'Rally once again, boys, rally once again!' Boom! Boom! -Bang! Bang! Boom!" (Marilda was equal to at least one army.) - -"Dey walked in blood for miles! Dey took de best horses dat old master -had. 'Bout 500 soldiers come to de house and ordered supper. Dere was a -tall log smokehouse and dey went right up to de tip-top and got de hams. -De middlin's and de shoulders was lower but dey got de hams. De women -worked all night and dey got through cooking 'bout daylight. What did -dey cook? Why, dey fried ham, made biscuits, and fried eggs. If de -soldiers wanted a chicken dey just killed it and someone cooked it for -dem. I ain't never seen no one have so many chickens. De soldiers cussed -de slaves like dogs. Dey was de Union soldiers, de blue coats. - -"When de soldiers come de men folks just got up and flew. Dey taken to -de woods. De soldiers come to get master's money and dey hunted -everywhere. Dey asked me, 'Whar is de money?' I say, 'I don't know.' Dey -say, 'You know d--well you do! I've a notion to cut your throat!' I -knowed where it was 'cause I seen master when he done hid it but he told -me he would whip me to death if I told and I thought de soldiers was -foolin' but master meant it. De soldier said: (Here it is necessary to -delete some of the most colorful words.) 'She is one of de ... -stubbornest little black ... I ever seen! I've a notion to cut her -throat!' (Marilda evidently enjoyed her reputation for ... -stubbornness.) Another man say, 'Maybe she don't know. Children don't -know things like dat. I wouldn't hurt her.' So dey went away. Dat was de -truth, de children didn't know everything den like dey does now. Dey -knows too much now! - -"De morning we was set free we didn't have nothing. Mother had three -little children and no place to go. De white folks told dem to 'git away -from here' and we come on down to Williamsburg. We walked down de road -in de snow, mother and de three little children. We went to de old -mistress and mother asked her could we find some place to stay. She -said, 'Yes, Louisa. I'll take care of you and de children. I would not -have turned you out of doors.' She sure was good to us. - -"I seen people turned across barrels and whipped. Dey was whipped 'cause -de white people was mean. Sometimes dey tied dem to trees and whipped -'em. Dey didn't have no clothes on at all--dey was just like dey come -into de world! Dey used a cowhide as big as my finger. It was made of -two strips twisted together and was keen at de end. De master whipped -when he could. When he couldn't do it, he called in de neighbors 'til -you'd think dere was a meetin'. De poor darkies had a hard time! - -"De patrollers (accent on the first syllable) used blacksnake whips. Dey -was a lot of de neighbors dat were patrollers. When dey would meet de -colored men out at night, dey would ask dem if dey had a pass. If dey -didn't, de patrollers would get off de horses and whip dem. De colored -men would slip out at night sometimes for a little pleasure. My daddy -got tired of being whipped and he put out. He was gone clean away. - -"De Ku Klux Klan come out and run de colored people away from home. Many -a colored woman came to mother's house in de middle of de night with -clothes covered with ice and snow to de waist and carrying her baby in -her arms 'cause dey ran her away from home. - -"We knowed who de men was. We'd hear dem say, 'Are you going out -tonight?' 'Yas', I'se got a little cluckin' to do.' Goin' cluckin'! Huh! -(Marilda fairly snorted with indignation and in some subtle way gave the -impression that she did not approve of Klansmen.) Dose men would bus' de -door down and run de people out. Run some of dem clean away. - -"Dey was one colored man, named McPherson, dat told dem not to come -pesterin' round his cabin. Dey come anyhow and he shot wid a double -barreled shotgun. He killed a white man, too. Of course, he had to leave -his home. He went to Illinois and I ain't never seen him since. - -"Mother hired us out to Mr. Billy Arnold to buy a lot in Williamsburg -and we built a little house dat was our home. I stayed dere until I -married Henry Pethy and we went to de old Kidwell place south of -Williamsburg. We lived dere twenty-five years. He worked for Taylor -Arnold, feeding cattle and mules. - -"We had eleven children. Four girls and one boy is still living. Dere -are three girls and one boy dead. (Marilda's arithmetic may be faulty -but it is excusable for she does not read or write.) My pension is a lot -of help. I had a real nice garden but it's 'bout burned up now. Dese -children think I'se too old to plant dat garden but I'll show dem. I -can't do it all in one day but I can do it. - -"I never went to no parties. Mother used to go but I better not look -like I want to go. Dere's some people here in town dat can tell you lots -'bout slavery. Have you seen Albert Jones?" - - - - -Susan Rhodes - - - *Interview with Susan Rhodes,* - *St. Louis, Missouri.* - - _She 'Members Stars Falling_ - -Susan Davis Rhodes, more than 100 years old, a resident of St. Louis, -lives at 915 O'Fallon Street in the rear with her married daughter, -Susie West. - -Susan is less than 5 ft. tall, weighs about 135 pounds and has mixed -gray curly hair. Her memory and eyesight are exceptionally good for her -years. Her small 3-room quarters are located in a very dilapidated old -brick building, in the slum area of St. Louis. - -Seated on her back porch, she cheerfully told the following story of her -experiences. - -"I was born in Jones County, North Carolina more than 100 years ago, I -don't know exactly how old I is but goin' by de count I got on my -children, dere ages and de war, and I even 'members de stars fallin', I -do know I'se more'n 100, but how much more I can't tell you dat. My -mother's name was Teeny Jones and my father's was Lott Davis. I 'member -15 of my mother's children, but she had a heap more of 'em dan dat. I -just don't 'member 'em all. I am de mother of 10 children myself. I got -6 living children, 11 living grandchildren, and so many living great and -great, great grandchildren I can't commence to count 'em. - -"My first owner's name was Marse Edward Davis and his wife's name was -Miss Susie, and I was de nurse girl, waitress and housemaid all my slave -days. I was a good nigger and I never did get whipped much. - -"I never did git no education in books neither, but did have common -sense education and knew how to treat folks. People in my day didn't -know book learning but dey studied how to protect each other, and save -'em from much misery as dey could. Dey didn't study trash and filth like -this new day generation. I 'members when de stars fell, I tried to ketch -some of 'em but I couldn't. I see'd in a dream a long time ago, honey, -dat one of dese United States presidents was going to send folks around -to get some of us slaves living to tell about our lives way back yonder, -'cause dey wants to know 'bout it from us ourselves and not what -somebody else wants to say. And course de President was not old 'nough -hisself to know, and he wants to learn de truth 'bout it all for hisself -and he's right, honey. Yes, he is. I 'member well when de war first -broke out de slave owners taken the little niggers from dere mammys, and -hide 'em in all kind of places from de Yankees, so when de old niggers -git der freedom, de white folks would have de children for slaves and -dey wouldn't know nothing 'bout freedom. But de Yankees was smart 'nough -to find out 'bout dat and freed us children and all. - -"I 'member well when dey took Richmond, Va. I was nursing old Miss' -baby, and she just hollered and cried 'cause she thought de Yankees done -killed her husband. I was worse dan her. I thought dey done killed -everybody and me too, I just was too scared to die. All dem soldiers -coming in dere so mad dey didn't know what to do, and neither did we. -Lord, I was glad when dat was done. Dem old Ku Klux folks in dem old -hoods, would ketch us and beat us so bad. Dem was de meanest folks in -all de world I do know. We sure did hate dem folks. Dey run off every -one of my brothers. Den dere was dem nigger dogs. I guess you sure done -heard 'bout dem, dey git on de niggers' tracks and run em down every -time. - -"Den my old Miss told my sister dat all de niggers was free now, go for -herself, but she was going to keep de two youngest niggers. Dat was me -and my baby sister, I don't know how old I was but I was big 'nough to -do any kind of work most. - -"But my sister stole us away. A white woman in another county hired my -sister and gave her railroad fare to come to her place. My sister rolled -up 3 of our baby sisters like a bundle in a quilt and told 'em don't -move or cry and as soon as she could unroll 'em and let 'em have some -air she would. So she got on de train with them three little niggers in -a bundle and toted 'em up under her arms like dey was her clothes and -belongings, and put 'em under her seat on de train. De bundle was so big -every time de conductor passed it was in de way and he would kick it out -of his way. Sister protected dem de best she could. Soon as he pass, she -opened it and let 'em have some air. When she see him coming back, she -wrap' em up again. Dey was all sure glad to git off dat train. Dey had -been kicked so much and dasn't holler. So de white lady was mighty nice. -She let us all stay dere till we could do better. Sister didn't have -money 'nough to pay all us fare and she didn't want to leave us and we -didn't want her to leave us. So dat was de best she could do. After a -while she found our mother and daddy and they sent for us. My -grandfather hid under de hills in de woods, hiding to keep from going to -de war. Dey never did find him neither, but de boys all fought. After de -war was over my father worked on farms, till he had made money 'nough to -lease a piece of land at Fort Makin, North Carolina. I stayed dere with -him until he was mustered out. I reckon I was 25 years old when I -married, I don't know exactly. I farmed de whole time I was raising my -children, clear up till I come up here to St. Louis and dat was over 20 -years ago. - -"My daughter, Susie, I am living here with lost her husband five years -ago. She has worked at de nut factory every since she been here, till -her health failed her. She is like me now. Neither one of us is no -'count, can't do nothing but sit here to home. One of my nephews, -Sanders Randoll, is working on a W.P.A. job doing de best he can for us. -De other nephew, Freeman Hollister, can't git nothing to do. De relief -helped us some 'bout 18 months dat's all. - -"I just look at dis new generation drinking and throwing parties every -night, on der way to hell wid der eyes wide open. It's a pity, ain't no -hopes for 'em. Der heads is too hard. I voted a Republican ticket one -time in my life many years ago, dat was de only time I recollect voting. -I don't even 'member de man I voted for. - -"We old slaves use' to love to sing: - - When I can read my titles clear, - To mansions in de sky, - I'll bid fare well to every tear, - And wipe my weeping eyes. - Should earth against my soul engage, - And fiery darts be hurled, - Then can I smile at Satan's rage - And face a frowning world. - Let cares like a wild deluge come, - And storms of sorrow fall. - May I but safely reach my home, - My God, my Heaven, my all. - There shall I bathe my weary soul, - In seas of heavenly rest. - And not a wave of trouble roll - Across my peaceful breast. - Tis faith supports my feeble soul, - In times of deep distress, - When storms arise and billows roll, - Great God, I trust thy grace. - Thy powerful arm still bears me up, - Whatever grieves befall; - Thou art my life, my joy, my hope, - And thou my all in life. - Bereft of friends, beset with foes, - With dangers all around, - To thee, I all my fears disclose; - In thee my help is found. - In every want, in every strait, - To thee alone I fly; - When other comforters depart, - Thou art forever nigh - O! That I knew the secret place, - Where I might find my God; - I'd spread my wants before his face, - And pour my woes abroad. - My God will pity my complaints, - And heal my broken bones; - He takes the meaning of his saints, - The language of their groans. - Arise my soul, from deep distress, - And banish every fear; - He calls thee to his throne of grace, - To spread thy sorrows there. - -"We used to steal off to de woods and have church, like de spirit moved -us, sing and pray to our own liking and soul satisfaction and we sure -did have good meetings, honey. Baptize in de river like God said. We had -dem spirit filled meetins at night on de bank of de river and God met us -dere. We was quiet 'nough so de white folks didn't know we was dere and -what a glorious time we did have in de Lord. I am a member of St. -Douglass Baptist Church on Laclede Avenue. Dey is de foot washing -Baptists." - - - - -Charlie Richardson - - - *Interview with Charlie Richardson,* - *Webb City, Missouri,* - *by Bernard Hinkle, Jasper* - *County, Joplin, Mo.* - -"Well, Charlie, let us sit right down here on this bench and chat -awhile. Mr. Hal M. Wise, editor of 'The Sentinel' here in Webb City, -told me about you. You won't mind if I ask you a few personal questions -about the days of slavery will you?" - -"No Sah' I'd be glad to tell you anything I know." - -"Thank you Charlie. The first thing I would like to ask is; is your name -Charles, Charlie or Charley?" - -"Everybody calls me Charlie." - -"Where were you born Charlie?" - -"I was born at Warrensburg, Missouri." - -"What year were you born in Charlie?" - -"They always said I was born in March. Didn't never give no day. Jest -March." - -"How old were you when the Civil War broke out?" - -"I don't remember exactly but I were seven they said." - -"How old are you now?" - -"The old-age pension man said I was 86 this year." - -"Now Charlie, please give me the name of your parents and where they -came from." - -"My Ma's name was Ann Smith, the first time,'cause my Pappy was Charlie -Smith. Then my Pappy died and my Ma married a man named Charlie -Richardson. He was my step-Pappy so I took his name. Both my own Pappy -and my step-Pappy were jest plain negroes and born in Warrensburg, but -my Ma was a Black Hawk Indian girl, kinder light in color and purtty. -Her Ma was a full-blooded Black Hawk and she married to Grandaddy -Richard Dowle, which was my Ma's name 'fore she married." - -"Tell me Charlie, did you have any brothers or sisters?" - -"Yes Sah, I had two sisters and five brothers but none ain't here now." - -"Describe your home and 'quarters' the best you can." - -"Log Cabins, that's what they was. All in a long row--piles of 'em. They -was made of good old Missouri logs daubed with mud and the chimney was -made of sticks daubed with mud. Our beds was poles nailed to sticks -standing on the floor with cross sticks to hold the straw ticks." - -"How did most of you cook--in the cabins or in the 'big house'?" - -"Most of the negroes cooked in the cabins but my Mammy was a house girl -and lots of times fetched my breakfast from the Masters house. Most of -the negroes, though, cooked in or near the cabins. They mostly used dog -irons and skillets, but when they went to bile anything, they used tin -buckets." - -"What food did you like best Charlie. I mean, what was your favorite -dish?" - -"It warn't no dish. It ware jest plain hoe cake mostly. No dishes or -dish like we has nowadays, No Sah! This here hoe cake was plain old -white corn meal battered with salt and water. No grease. Not much -grease, jest 'nough to keep it from stickin'. This here hoe cake was -fried jest like flap-jacks, only it were not. Not flap-jacks I mean. -When we didn't have hoe cake we had ash cake. Same as hoe cake only it -was boiled. Made of corn meal, salt and water and a whole shuck, with -the end tied with a string. - -"We never had no flap-jacks in the cabins. No Sah! Flap-jacks was -something special for only Marster Mat Warren and the Missis. That makes -me remember a funny story about flap-jacks. My Ma brought some flap-jack -stuff down to the cabin one day; you know, jest swiped it from the house -where she worked. Well, Ma was frying away to git me something special -like when she hears the Missis comin' with her parrot. So, Ma hides them -flap-jacks right quick. Soon the Missis come in our cabin and was -talkin' to my Mammy when that crazy old parrot he begin to get fussy -like somethin' was wrong. He were a smart parrot and outside, generally -called us all 'niggers, niggers'. Well Sah, he kept squaking and the -Missis kept sayin', "shut up' shut up', what's the matter with you?" -Purtty soon the Missis go over to sit in a chair Ma had with a big pad -in it. And before the Missis could set down that crazy parrot begun to -yell, 'Look out Mam, it's hot'. Look out'. Look out'. The Missis turned -to my Ma and said 'What's the matter here?' My Ma answered, 'Tain't -nothin' the matter Missie.' And then that fool parrot hollows agin, -'It's hot' It's hot'. And sure 'nough the missis she get a peek at a -flap-jack stickin' through under the pad, where Ma hid them. And Ma -almost got a good lickin' fer that. - -"That parrot could out-talk Marster Warren and wouldn't eat anything we -would give him 'cause he was afraid of being poisoned by is 'niggers'. -They use to tie him out in the field to watch the negroes at work, and -when he went in the house at night Ma said he would hollow and yell the -most unholy lies about those 'niggers' and what they tried to do to him. - -"Sometime we'd get him to drink some weigh milk, the Marster had given -us when it was so sour it would make a hog squeal. The parrot would call -us some awful names for doing that." - -"What clothing did the older boys and men wear Charlie?" - -"Big boys and gwon folks wore jeans and domestic shirts. Us little kids -wore jest a gown. In the winter time we wore the same only with brogans -with the brass toes." - -"You said awhile ago that they gave you 'weigh' milk. That's a very poor -grade of milk isn't it?" - -"Yes Sah, It's the poorest kind of poor milk. It ain't even milk. It's -what is left behind, when the milk is gone." - -"And coffee. How about coffee. Didn't you have any coffee to drink?" - -"We has coffee some time, but it ware made of burned corn meal. Once in -awhile the slaves while makin' coffee for Marster Mat out of the wheat -would burn a pan purposely and he would give it to them to make coffee -with. That was purtty good coffee. Some time they got whupped for -burnin' it, 'cause he knowed they burned it too much for his coffee, on -purpose--jest so they'd git it." - -"Now Charlie, you said you were born in Warrensburg, Missouri. Were you -born on Mat Warren's place?" - -"Yes Sah." - -"How many slaves did Mr. Warren have?" - -"150." - -"I understand they sold off attractive women slaves and husky men. How -is it they didn't sell your Mother?" - -"She ware a house girl. Purtty and light in color, so they wanted to -keep her for that job." - -"Did they sell your father?" - -"Yes Sah, they did. That is, they sold my step-Pappy as my own Pappy was -dead." - -"Speaking about your step-Pappy being sold reminds me: They say that the -expression 'selling slaves on the block' is not true. That is, not -always true." - -"We never had no 'block' on Mat Warren's place. We calls it 'Puttin' 'em -on the stump'. But the 'stump' were neither block nor stump, it were a -box. Big wooden box." - -"I have heard it said that some slaves brought big prices. Tell me, if -you will, how much your step-Pappy was sold for." - -"Well Sah, there was some buyers from south Texas was after to buy my -step-Pappy for two years runnin', but the Marster would never sell him. -So one time they comes up to our place at buying time (that was about -once every year) and while buying other slaves they asked Mat Warren if -he wouldn't sell my step-Pappy, 'cause he was a sure 'nough worker in -the field--the best man he had and he could do more work than three -ordinary men. - -"But the Marster tried to git rid of that buyer agin by saying I don't -take no old offer of $2,000 for Charlie, an' I won't sell under $2,055. -The buyer he said right quick like. 'Sold right hare'. So that's how he -come to leave us and we never seed him agin. Like to broke my Mammy up, -but that's the way we slaves had it. We didn't let ourselves feel too -bad, 'cause we knowed it would come that way some time. But my Ma she -liked that Charlie and she feeled it mos'. - -"We always knowed when they was going to sell, 'cause they would let -them lay around and do nothin'. Jest feed them and git fat. They even -smeared their faces with bacon rind to make 'em look greasy and well fed -afore the sale. They never had no grease to eat only now and then Mat -Warren he makes it look like them niggers is well fed and cared for. The -buyers would a stick pins in 'em and examine their teeth like horses." - -"By the way Charlie, what kind of jails did they have in those days?" - -"They never had no jails. Your back was the jail. When you done -something serious Marster Mat Warren called in the 'whuppers' and they -made your back bleed and then rubbed salt into the skin. After that they -chained you to a tree and let you suffer." - -"What did you do as a child around the place?" - -"I carried in the water and wood to the Missis house and helped Ma." - -"What time did you all get up in the morning?" - -"A big bell hanging in the center of all the cabins rang at 4 A.M. and -then most of the grown folks worked from dawn till eleven at night. We -never had no Saturdays off like they do now. Nor no Sundays off -neither." - -"What kind of house did the Master live in?" - -"The Marster he have a very fine home. About ten rooms, built of common -brick. It ware a very purtty house; great big like." - -"What did you do, Charlie, after work at night?" - -"Mostly, go to bed. We kids did early. But I wake up lots of times and -hear my Ma and Pappy praying for freedom. They do that many times. I -hear it said that Abraham Lincoln hears some slaves praying at a sneaked -meetin' one time, askin' the Good Lord for freedom. And it is believed -that Abraham Lincoln told them, that if he were President he would free -them." - -"Did you ever play any games or dance any?" - -"No! No games, no play, only work. We had to be mighty careful we didn't -use a pencil or any paper or read out where the Marster could see us. He -would sure lick us fer that." - -"What do you think of Abraham Lincoln?" - -"I think he ware the greatest man in the world." - -"Do you remember much about the war Charlie?" - -"Not very much. I was only seven then, but I remembers that those -Bushwackers came to steal my Marster's money but he wouldn't tell where -he hid it. Said he didn't have any. They said he was telling a lie -'cause no man could have so many slaves and not have some money. He did -have 150 slaves but he wouldn't tell where the money was hid. So they -burned his feet, but he still wouldn't tell 'em he had hid it in the -orchard. No Sah! He jest didn't tell. - -"Them Bushwackers though, were not so bad as them Union soldiers. They -took all our horses and left us old worn out nags; even took my horse I -use to ride." - -"What was the first thing you done after the war was over and you found -yourself free, Charlie?" - -"We went right next farm and rented land from Buck Towers and farmed -until Ma died. Then I went to Fayetteville and worked at odd jobs there -awhile. I worked too, on the Fayetteville College building. I stayed -around Fayetteville 40 years. I was married when I first went there to a -light colored woman. A Cherokee Indian. We had seven children, all -girls. Only one is livin' now. She is the one I live with in Webb City, -Missouri. I don't live with my wife now. My daughter's name is Mrs. Sam -Cox. Her husband Sam Cox works at a garage in Webb. They have seven -children too. Two girls, five boys, all living. - -"When I was married I was a coachman and wore my coach clothes--Begum -hat (high silk hat), black double-breasted flap tailed coat and black -broadcloth pants. My shoes were low and had beads all over the front. I -looked like Booker T. Washington. And I like him most next to Abraham -Lincoln. - -"I use to work for Judge Brown in Fayetteville as coachman. Then I come -here and worked for Mrs Louise Corn of Webb City for 13 years. I ain't -workin' now, only firin' the boiler for the First National Bank in -winter-time. My son-in-law Sam Cox, he works at the Bank on the side and -I help him a little. Mostly, I'm jest man about town." - -"Now, tell me in passing, Charlie, do you remember any men passing -through your place in Warrensburg, looking for escaped slaves?" - -"Yes I remember some tough men driving like mad through our place many -times, with big chains rattling. We called them slave hunters. They -always came in big bunches. Five and six together on horse back. -Patrollers they was. They were almost as bad to us as them outlaws who -used to come by and eat up all Marse Warren's chickens. There was some -Texas bad men, too. John Reid, The Webb Boys, and Little Preston Smith. - -"But, I'm sure glad it is all over now, but we didn't git nothin' out of -it like we expected. We thought they was goin' to divide up the farms -and give us some of it. No Sah! They was so mad at us for being freed -that they got rid of us as soon as they could, and we was only too glad -to go. - -"I gits a small old-age pension now and live purtty quiet like, but I -tell you Sah, times ain't like they use to be. These yer young -negroes--I don't think so much of anyhow." - - - - -Madison Frederick Ross - - - *Interview with Madison Frederick Ross,* - *Commerce, Missouri.* - -"Ah was bahn jes ninety year ago, two and one-half mile south of -Commerce in Scott County. Mah Fathuh an' Mothuh was Jack an' Mary Ross. -Ole Mastuh James Ross was a kind ole man, a'ways good to his cullud -folks. Ole Missus died 'fore Ah was bahn. 'Nen dey was young Mastuhs -James Jr., John an' William. Young Miss Francis married Joe Anderson. - -"They was 'bout six hundred acres in de home place an' a hundred acres -in de othuh fahm. Ole Mastuh had 25 or 30 slaves an we hed eight cabins -built on three sides o' square with de big house on the othuh side. It -was a big house, white with po'ches upstahs an' down. They was lotsa -fruit trees 'roun' th' house, peaches, plums, pears, apples, an they was -hollyhocks growin all roun' the yahd. - -"Ouah cabin was jes one room with a big fiah place at one end. There was -a'ways a big kittle a hangin in th' chimbly an' one o' them iron ovens a -settin on the hawth. They was five in ouah fambly an' we had one big bed -an' a trundle bed thet ud roll undah the othuh bed like that. - -"Fethuh beds? Whew! Yessir! We hed the bigges' fethuh beds! You shoulda -seen the big flock o' geese we hed. Hey, hey, hey--I'se thinkin' 'bout -how us children a'ways crawled undah the house to gathuh the goose aigs. -The geese a'ways laid undah th' house, an we'd crawl aroun' unduh there -an git um an' when we's backin' out, the ole gander ud ketch us an' flog -us. Many's the time he's wahmed the seat o' ouah pants. - -"Somehow th' children was skeered o' Ole Mastuh, ah don' know why, -'cause he nevuh hit none o' us. Mastuh was tall an' thin,--an if we 'us -sittin' roun' playin' an he come along we'd jump up an' run, an' if we -'ud look back--theuh he'd stan, jes shakin with laffin'. Ah spect he -thought it war funny tuh have us skeered. - -"Ever mornin' 'bout ten o'clock an' ever afternoon 'bout three all the -chillern had tuh have they lunch. You know whut cahn pone is? -Mmmm--thet's th' bes' bread! Jes make a sort a hole in th' hot embuhs, -than pour it in an covuh it wuth mo' hot embuhs--an when ut's done jes -wash ut off a bit. That sho was good bread! Well, each one o' us -chillern hed to have a cahn pone--they was about 30 of us--an each take -a tin pint cup an' foller the milk woman to the spring house. She'd fill -ouah cups an' that was ouah lunch twice evah day. - -"As a boy ah tended thuh cows an' sech like, an' built the fires in the -fireplaces, later they let me plow an' ah thought ah sure had a big job. -Ah wuz so proud at didden wanna stop for dinnah. - -"'High Buck, Low Do' was one o' the games us boys usta play. - -"My gran'fathuh was mos'ly Indian an he usta go out into the woods an' -stay for days at a time. Ole Mastuh always called him Ole Yaller -Abe--But one time he ran away--crossed the rivuh ovah heah an' went up -tuh Canada. He usta write tuh Ole Mastuh an' he'd read the lettuhs tuh -us. Mah fathuh was the shoe-maker, made all the shoes--for the white -folks an' us too. We bought the leathuh from the tanyawd at the edge o -town an We'd sell them tan-bark. Mah Mothuh was one o' the weavers. The -loom an spinnin wheels was in a separate house--Ah usta watch the big -warpin' bar go 'roun' an' wish ah could ride on ut but ah nevuh did. - -"We had church foh the cullud folks an' lotsa white folks ud a'ways come -an' lissen to the preachin'. - -"We raised lotsa cattle an' horses, an mules--an in them days wheat was -nevah less 'en $2.00 a bushel. - -"The niggah buyahs usta come roun' ouah place but ah don' recollect any -of ouah niggahs bein sold. They'd have slave sales ovah at Benton. One -time young Mastuh bought home a thirteen yeah ole boy he paid a thousan' -dollahs an' fifty cents for--We didden have no school fo' the cullud -folks but young Mastuh William went to school an' in the evenin's he'd -teach some o' us. In 'at way ah got as far as the fo'th grade. - -"When the wah came on', 'cose we heared lots about it an sometime we'd -see sojers. One time Gen'ral Grant come thru Commerce with about 40,000 -men. They come down the rivuh in boats, an' camped here. The sojers 'ud -come foragin' round ouah place but they nevah bothered much. They'd -grind they swords on ouah grindstones an' show us how sharp they was by -cuttin' the cahn stalks. - -"One night in sixty-three, me an four othuhs ran away and went to the -Cape an' joined the ahmy. Ah was in Co. H. 56th U.S. Cullud, unduh Col. -Bentzoni.[2] We was in the Battle of Big Creek, Arkansas an in several -skirmishes. Ah learned tuh play in the band, played second B-flat -cahnet. We suah learned our do, re's. - - [2] HW: Probably 56th Ohio Infantry (?) [TR: 56th U.S. Colored - Infantry, Helena, Arkansas] - -"Ouah Captain, Ole George Free, was a preacher an he'd have prayun -meetin's in his tent. All the ole women from aroun' would come--an' we'd -have big times on Sunday mahnin's. One time one o' the boys, Ed Johnson, -got drunk an' the provost guahd put 'm in jail. Nex' mahnin, Capin Free -go down theah to git him an' he raise so much racket Ol Cunnel say 'Turn -im loose, Ole Cap'm go crazy 'bout his niggers.' - -"We was stationed down in Helena, Arkansas, aftuh the fightin was ovah -an' the officers sent up no'th fo' some teachers, to have school fo' us. -They call it the Norman Institute an we each paid fifty cents a month to -go. The teachers was Quakers an they never laughed or smiled. They -a'ways seemed tuh be thinkin--seemed tuh think it was a sin to have fun. -'Ah kin still heah em--how they usta say, 'Thou shall get thy lessons -ovah.' We was mustered out in St. Louis in 1866. - -"Aftuh ah come back heah tuh Commerce Ah started a school, Ah called it -'Select School' an' they each paid fifty cents a month--grown folks come -tuh mah school some o' em fifty an sixty year old an ah had all ah cud -take caah of--Latuh, Ah taught school out in the country. - -"Why do they call me doctuh? See that diploma on the wall! I got that -fum a school of hypnotism. Yes'm a correspondence course. No'm, I nevuh -practised it much, jes a little now an then for fun. - -"One time the Ku Klux come aroun. They knock on the doah, then they say -'Please give me a drink, Ah ain't had a drink since the battle o' -Shiloh.' What fo' they say that? Why, you see, they wants us tuh think -they's the spirits a' the sojers killed at Shiloh an they been in hell -so long they drinks all the water they kin git. This one man make us -carry him five buckets of water, an' it look like he drink em but nex -mahnin' theys a big mud puddle side thu doah." - - - - -Alice Sewell - - - *Interview with Alice Sewell,* - *St. Louis, Missouri.* - - _She Never Attended School_ - -Never having attended school a day in her 86 years of life has not -cramped the style of Alice Sewell, one of St. Louis' former Negro -slaves. Alice lives with a married daughter, Mattie Hill, and a -grandson, Henry Morse, at 329 South Ewing Avenue. - -Spotlessly dressed, much after the fashion of a nurse, and weighing less -than 100 pounds, Alice presents a pleasing picture as she chats -interestingly with visitors. Her mind is keenly alive to what is going -on in the world. She is much annoyed by the roistering younger folks, as -she outlines in her observations in the following chat: - -"I was born in Montgomery, Alabama, November 13, 1851, the daughter of -Rhoda and Edmond Carey. I have three brothers and two sisters dead. I am -the only child living. I ain't never been in a school house in my life -and I never did learn how to read or write. I recollect three of my -overseers. The first one's name Elik Clayton, the second one named -Mofield and the third one named Pierson. I was 13 years old time de -third one got me and de war had started, so we had to pack all de cotton -up in bales, and in sun face houses and sun face cribs to be out of the -weather. The seed cotton was kept in de gin house, 'cause dey didn't had -no time to fool wid dat. Den dey up and bought spinning wheels and -cards, so us women could spin it to make cloth, and make clothes at -home, and would not have to go to de factory to buy clothes. - -"Dey had to keep de money to care for de families de soldiers left -behind, and send corn by de loads to de battlefield to feed de horses. -Dey stopped raising cotton after de war started, and just raised food -stuff 'cause dey had to send food to de battlefield for de soldiers. De -poor white folks what lived up in de hilly country, too poor to own -slaves, while de war was going on, had to come down out of de hilly -country. Dey lived on government land and dey had to have food for dem -and der children. Der men folks was taken away from dem to war. Dey was -called counterscript soldiers, and if dey refused to go to war dey got -shot down like a dog. So de most of 'em rather go on and take chances of -de war missing 'em dan get shot widout a doubt. Dey use to say dey had -to go and fight a rich man's war but dey couldn't help demselves no -better'n us slaves could. - -"My owner was very rich. He owned four plantations of slaves. He had two -plantations on de Tallapoosa River, one named Jedkins upper ferry -plantation and de other Jedkins Mill Place and the third plantation was -called The Bradshaw Place. It was out from de river and de fourth one -was called De High Log Plantation. He was always fairly kind to his -slaves. He didn't believe in abusing dem less he couldn't help it, and -when he'd find out de overseers beat 'em widout a cause, he'd fire 'em -right away, and git somebody else. Dat's why he so prosperous, 'cause he -was fair. He never even 'lowed overseers on his plantation what had -grown boys, to be runnin' round 'mongst his slaves neither, no he -didn't. He didn't believe in dat intermingling, 'deed he didn't. Dey -didn't 'low us to sing on our plantation 'cause if we did we just sing -ourselves happy and git to shouting and dat would settle de work, yes -mam. - -"Dey did 'low us to go to church on Sunday about two miles down de -public road, and dey hired a white preacher to preach to us. He never -did tell us nothing but be good servants, pick up old marse and old -misses' things about de place, and don't steal no chickens or pigs and -don't lie 'bout nothing. Den dey baptize you and call dat, you got -religion. Never did say nothing 'bout a slave dying and going to heaven. -When we die, dey bury us next day and you is just like any of de other -cattle dying on de place. Dat's all 'tis to it and all 'tis of you. You -is jest dead dat's all. De old lady dat raised my mother, she was a -black mammy. She done all de burying of de niggers, said de funeral -sayings by herself. She knew it by heart. Dey swapped my grandmother -away 'cause she didn't bear children like dey wanted her to, so de man -dey swapped her off to come back two months later and told our owner dat -grandmamma was heavy with child. Den he wanted to buy her back 'cause -she was a good worker, but her new owner would not let him have her back -and she had thirteen children after dat. Our old owner surely was sick -of dat swap. My mother was only three years old when dey sold her mother -to another master and she never saw her agin 'till she had all dem -thirteen children. - -"Dis is how mother found grandmother. Our owner bought a slave what come -off of a plantation dat my grandmother was on. She was turned over to -dis slave owner to satisfy a gambling debt left unpaid by de dead -husband. So she told my mother all about de deal and all de children -mother had never seen. My mother had three children of her own, at dat -time. De slave dat brought de news name was Elsie. So Elsie had lots of -relatives on dis plantation she was sold off of. Well she had to have a -pass everytime she want to go visit her folks. So she tells my mother -next time I git a pass to go see my people, you ask old boss for you one -too so you can go see you mamma and sisters and brothers you never seen. -Mamma did and when mamma got to old John Beasley's plantation on Lime -Creek mother didn't know grandmother Sallie and grandmother Sallie -didn't know her daughter Rhoda till Elsie introduced 'em to each other. -Dey was so glad dey just hugged and kissed plenty. De war was going on -den and dey fought four years and two months. - -"De first year after de war my father and mother kept us children and -stayed right on with our old owner and done share cropping till father -was able to buy stock of his own, but he did not buy no property. When I -got 18 years old I married, but I stayed right on with my mother and -father just de same and my children buried both my mother and father. My -mother lived to be 100 years old and my father was between 80 and 90 -when he died. - -"I left Montgomery, Alabama de last of 1902 when Louis was only 11 years -old and came to Morouse, Alabama and stayed five years after dat. I -moved to Arkansas, stayed quite a while, don't know how long. All dat -time I made my living washing and ironing and picking cotton from farm -to farm. My husband died 28 years ago last March. I been in St. Louis -now between 12 and 13 years. - -"We used to slip off in de woods in de old slave days on Sunday evening -way down in de swamps to sing and pray to our own liking. We prayed for -dis day of freedom. We come from four and five miles away to pray -together to God dat if we don't live to see it, do please let our -chillun live to see a better day and be free, so dat dey can give honest -and fair service to de Lord and all mankind everywhere. And we'd sing -'Our little meetin's 'bout to break, chillun we must part. We got to -part in body, but hope not in mind. Our little meetin's bound to break.' -Den we used to sing 'We walk about and shake hands, fare you well my -sisters I am going home.' - -"I never did hear nothing 'bout what de niggers specked from de white -folks. We was so glad to get loose, we didn't speck nothing but git out -of bondage. Dey didn't even give us time off to wash our clothes. We had -to wash 'em at night when we ought to been resting our old backs what -was so tired. We liked to go to de field clean in de mornings. Dat's de -only way we had of doing it. I never been on relief in my life. I got my -first pension last month. It was $17.50 old age pension. I sure was -proud of dat. - -"I never had no interest in politics till last year, dey come and got me -and told me to vote de Republican ticket. I did what dey said do, but -dey didn't git it after all. My oldest grandson works at a bakery where -he been working nine years and takes care of me, his mother and brother. -I think de biggest run of this late generation is ignorant. 'Course dey -goes to school alright, but dey don't make no good of it. De people wid -de Bible and God education is much better folks dan dis ignorant book -learned fools. Dat's all dey is honey. Dey don't respect derself, God -nor de devil. Dey jes' act like something wild raised, turned loose in -de swamps. Dere schooling makes me wish I could walk de streets wid my -ears stopped up and eyes blindfolded so I couldn't even hear nor see dis -educated generation. Bless your soul honey, I don't care a scrap 'bout -schooling dat don't teach decency or common respect. De knee way is all -de education dat mounts to nothing no way. God's way is de only way. It -makes you treat everybody in de world like you want to be treated by -other folks and dat's right, and everything else's wrong by dat. - -"But de time's on de way here, daughter, when we all be one people like -God intended black and white de same. Course de end will be at hand when -dat happens but it's sure coming. Den God will bless us all alike and -everything we put our hands to will prosper. God's will is fast -fulfilling and He is true to His word. We will walk with God some day, I -won't be here I don't speck. But I am walking with God myself right now. -I am a member of Southern Mission Church. - -"I owned a nice home in Warren, Arkansas. I sold it to come up here. De -folks down dere said dey would sure miss seeing me walking around down -der wid my white apron on but I believed in immigration like de Bible -said. So I just immigrated from de South up here to de North. God said -de plantations would grow up and de hoot owls would have 'em and dey is -doin it. Growin' up into wilderness. God planned dem slave prayers to -free us like he did de Israelites, and dey did." - - - - -Perry Sheppard - - - *Interview with Perry Sheppard,* - *Aged 94, Fredericktown, Missouri.* - *Interviewed by J. Tom Miles.* - -"I'm hard of hearin'. I know I'm 94 years old; was born in Cape County. -I was a slave till I was 20 years old. I was a house boy. De boss had a -number of black men who did de work in de field. In warm weather we wore -flax, an jeans, in de winter I had plenty of meat to eat. I can't read -or write. Wish I could. My old mistress told me I was free when I was -20. Den I stayed there a while and worked on shares. De militia come an -took a horse away from me on de road ten miles away from home and I had -to walk home. But he fetched de hoss home after a while. I think slavery -was a good thing. I never suffered for nothin'. Lincoln wanted every man -to work for himself." - - - - -Frank Sides - - - *Interview with Frank Sides,* - *Cape Girardeau, Missouri.* - -"Ah's jest a little feller when de war's over, jes' 'bout six year ole, -ah wuz, an' ah don' rec'lect much 'bout dem days. Aaron an' Lucy Sides -wuz mah daddy an' mammy, an' we belong to Mastuh Cato. Dey live near -Fredericktown, ah don' membuh young 'Missus' name, an' dey neveh had no -chillun. Dey had a big house, an' seems like we live in paht o'de white -folks' house. De sojers come 'round sometime, but dey didden' bathuh us, -jes' ask fo' a drink er suthin' to eat, an' go on. - -"But de 'Bushwackers' wuz bad, dey go shootin' anybody, en' doin' -devilment. I don' rec'lect nuthin' dey done roun' our place but one day -a little bunch o' 'em stop dere fo' a drink. Ah's scared o' 'um, but ah -gives 'em all a drink, an' de las' man takes his drink and t'rows de -dippuh on de flo'. - -"We didden' hab no school but ah learned to read an' write, but ah's not -much of a scholar at dat. - -"When de war's ovuh we move to 'Cape', an' we live fust one place, 'en -'nuther, doin' whut we could. - -"One time ah's workin' wid a gang on a railroad bridge. Dey wuz a big -gang of us. Oh, mebbe three or fo' hundred. De sleepin' cah wuz 'bout -half mile down de track. Come mah time tuh turn in, ah starts down de -track. It wuz bright moonlight an' ah's tired an' sleepy. Jes' as ah -comes along whar de cattle gahd is, dere standin' in de middle o' de -track is a big, tall man, all in black. He don' move, an' he's tall -ag'in as ah is. It's so light ah kin see him plain. Ah stan's an' looks -at him an' ah thinks: 'Shall ah run past? No, if ah does he'll git me -sho'.' Den ah says, 'Shall ah climb dat bobwire fence an' go through de -fiel'', but ah says, 'No, No!, spose mah pants gits hung on de bobwire, -den whut happen?' Ah looks at him again an' he's twice as big ez he wuz -befo', but he jes' stans dere. So ah goes jes' ez close to de fence ez -ah could an' goes sideways pass' him, keepin' mah eye on him, but he -don' move, jes' keep standin' dere. Nex' day ah goes tuh look at de -place but don' see no sign o' him. Ah don' know why fo' he stan' dere -'till folks tell me dat, 'Bout a year befo', a man wuz killed right -der'." - - - - -Mollie Renfro Sides - - - *Interview with Mollie Renfro Sides,* - *Cape Girardeau, Missouri.* - -"Mah mammy wuz Rosie Renfro, an' we' un's blong to 'Massa' Tom B. -English, an' Miss Sarah. We live neah Jackson. My daddy Spencer Renfro, -he blong to 'Massa' Jack Renfro, en' de Cape Road. - -"'Massa' English wouldn't sell us, an' 'Massa' Renfro woun' sell mah -daddy, so dey jes' let mah daddy come tuh see us on Satudays. - -"Our white folks, dey wuz all mighty nice people. Dey live in a big -white house, an' dey has lotsa nice things. Mah mammy done de cookin' -an' 'twen time she he'p weave on de loom, an' spin an' knit. - -"Dey wuz jes' two o' us families. We lived in little ole log houses an' -in tuther house dey wuz Ann, an' Nancy an' 'Aunt Dinah'. - -"Den seems like dey wuz a 'nuddah house whar a bunch o' men stay 'at -works in de fiel'. Dey wuz some field 'roun' de house, an' day wuz a -'nudder fiel' dey call 'mile fiel'. It were a mile big, evuh way. Dey -raise lotsa wheat en' cahn an' sich-like, an' chickens an' cows, an' -fruit, apples, an' peaches. - -"Some o' de womans worked in de fiel' an' when dey comes in dey has tuh -set down an' peel apples an' peaches fo' fryin' an' put 'em on big racks -out in de sun an' when dey's dry, put 'em in bags, an' hang 'em up fo' -wintuh. - -"Ah wuzn' very big at dat time, jes' 'bout fo' yeah ole, but ah rec'lect -how scared we is when de sojers come by. De men folks all hide out an' -so de Missus, when we wants tuh hide too, she say, 'Run on out, run on -out, and tell 'em nobody home'. Sometime dey hide unner de bed, 'hind de -trunnel bed. - -"An' ah 'membuh 'Miss Betty' died. She had pneumonya. Dar she wuz all -pretty in huh coffin, an' dey had all de cullud folks come through de -house tuh see her. Pore 'lil' Missis'! Dey buried huh in Jackson. - -"When a 'body's sick, if yuh hears a hoot owl near de house, er a -whipperwill dat's bad luck. Ah a'way's goes out an' tries tuh chase' em -off. But ah guess ef dey's gonna bring bad luck, dey's already brung -it." - - - - -Jane Simpson - - - *Interview with Jane Simpson,* - *St. Louis, Missouri.* - - _She Was Sold 6 Times_ - -The subject of this sketch is Jane Simpson, familiarly known in her -neighborhood as Aunt Jane. She is more than 90 years old but her exact -age is not certain. She lives at 2712-1/2 Clark Avenue with her niece -and family. - -In a very poorly furnished old 3-room brick apartment, seated in the -front bed room, was Jane Simpson, frail and slender, very light -complexion with beautiful long white hair, well combed and neatly -dressed. Owing to a recent illness, she was not able to do any -housework. Jane very feebly tells the following story of her life: - -"I was born more than 90 years ago down in Burkesville, Kentucky. My -memory's not so good, 'cause I been sick more than 20 years, and just -got up less than a week ago from a very bad spell. But I might tell my -story scatterin' like. I'll do the best I can. I been sold six times in -my life, first to Chris Ellis, second, to John Emerson and my third -owner was Jessie Cook. - -"I wasn't old enough to be much help, till I 'come the property of Marse -Cook. Den I was big enough to pick up chunks in de field, set brush heap -afire, burn up rubbish, pull weeds and de like. He sold me to Dr. Hart -around de age of ten to be his house girl. De doctor kept me till de -Civil War was in de air and dey started running de slaves to Texas -'cause dey thought de Yankees couldn't make it plum to Texas, but dey -did. By de time we got as far as Crowley's Ridge, peace was declared. My -father's owner was old Bill Cuington, de meanest slave owner in de -county. Dey made him go to war, so when he come back, he told my papa -dat he was as free as him now, and he could go if he wanted to, or stay, -he didn't care which, but if he stayed he wouldn't git nothing for his -work. So a white neighbor friend heard Marse Bill say it. He told my -father to come to his place with him down de road apiece where he was -clearing up land, but if he got caught, don't ever tell he helped him -get away 'cause some of the land he was clearing up was owned by -Cuington, and Cuington would fire him if he knowed he helped one of his -ex-slaves in anyway. - -"So papa taken my mother and us 4 children de route dis white friend -helped him to go, to Clarington, Arkansas. He got us a job on a farm -owned by his friend, Jerry Diles. Our whole family went to work on Mr. -Diles farm and we made a good crop. Mama milked, I cooked, de rest of de -family farmed and we stayed there more'n 4 years. When we left we had -money enough to buy us a farm and stock of our own. I 'member well when -I was a child how dey wouldn't 'low us chillun nothin' to eat but -pumpkin and mush. We didn't own no clocks dem days. We just told de time -by de sun in de day and de stars at night. If it was clouded we didn't -know what time it was. De white folks didn't want to let de slaves have -no time for der self, so de old folks used to let us chillun run and -play at night, while de white folks sleep and dey watch de stars to tell -about what time to call us in and put us to bed, 'fore de white folks -know we was out. - -"I been sold six times in my life, but, I never got more dan three or -four whippings, but dey cut de blood out of me every one of dem times. -If old miss got mad about something, just anything at all, she'd have -you whipped, when maybe you had not done a thing, just to satisfy her -spite feeling. I never can forget, I was sitting upstairs in old miss -house quilting when de first Yankee army boat went to Vicksburg, -Mississippi. Old miss made me git right up and go git her children out -of school and bring 'em right home. She's scared to death most, but de -boat went right on. It didn't even stop. I had to take her children back -and forth to school every day. Dey was mighty nice children. Dem very -white children taught me to read and write, but I been sick so bad and -so long I done forgot every bit of it. My first old master never was -married and he only bought 2 slaves in his whole life and had between 50 -and 100 slaves, all kin folks. Dey raised children on his plantation -worse dan flies. I never had a child in my life but I raised a host of -other folks' chillun. - -"Old master was a drunkard. He got drunk one night and fell off a rock -and broke his hip. He died from dat fall. Before he died he told papa, -he knew he was goin' to die, and he had been so mean to his old slaves -dat he wanted to do somethin' for 'em, and no one never knew where he -kept his money. My grandpapa, Meridie and grandmother, Juda, was de only -2 slaves he ever bought and all de rest come from dem 2. Old marse Chris -told grandfather before he died, there was a keg buried at de foot of de -cliff with all his money in it, for he was very rich. My old grandfather -told de overseer 'bout it. Dey wouldn't dare to dig and find anything on -de owner's plantation without de overseer let em, specially when de boss -is dead, and de overseer of course said he looked for de keg and didn't -find nothing. - -"I had an uncle who was buying his freedom from marse Chris and was -almost paid out when marse Chris died, but he didn't know nothing 'bout -keeping receipts so he was put on the auction block and sold again. My -mama and daddy had 13 children and they is everyone dead but me. My -papa's name was Dave Bedford. He was 103 years old when he died in Holly -Grove, Arkansas. My sister died and left 9 children and I raised -everyone of dem. One boy is deaf and dumb, and lives in Little Rock, -Arkansas and is one of the best paper hangers down there. My husband was -a farmer. He has been dead so long, I can't tell when he died. My grand -niece said he been dead 22 years, I don't know. My children I raised and -my friends have been taking care of me, ever since my husband died, -'cause I can't take care of myself. - -"While my husband lived we farmed all de time and lived well. When he -died I had $4000 in de bank at Mound Bayou, Mississippi. De bank went -down and I been a beggar every since. Never did get one penny of dat -money. I been here in St. Louis so long, I don't know how long I been -here. - -"A Democrat offered my husband 80 acres of land if he would vote a -Democrat ticket and get his friends to change from Republicans to -Democrats and my husband told him he would suffer his right arm to be -cut off before he would do that, and he didn't change either. I only -voted once in my life dat was for a Republican President, I don't -remember which one. De niggers didn't 'spect nothing from de white folks -when dey got set free. Dey was so glad to get set free dey just glad to -be loose. - -"I never even heerd of white folks giving niggers nothing. Most of de -time dey didn't even give 'em what dey 'spose to give 'em after dey was -free. Dey was so mad 'cause dey had to set 'em free, dey just stayed -mean as dey would 'low 'em to be anyhow, and is yet most of 'em. I used -to hear old slaves pray and ask God when would de bottom rail be de top -rail, and I wondered what on earth dey talkin' 'bout. Dey was talkin' -'bout when dey goin' to git from under bondage. Course I know now. I -don't hardly know what to say 'bout dis new generation. Dey ain't -nothing like when I come along, nor nothing like when you come along. - -"You can just look at a person and tell whether dey is late day folks or -not. Dey is de worse, ill mannered, biggody generation I ever heard of. -Dey don't care for folks' feelings and jest as lazy and good for nothing -as dey can be. Instead of being better 'cause der opportunities is -better, dey is worse, and I feel so sorry about it. De old folks wanted -to be free so bad dey use to sing a song named 'Free, Free My Lord, -March on De Heavenly Way.' I can't remember none de other songs. I been -sick so much. I wish I could go back to de Arkansas country where my -mama and papa died. Dere is 11 children down dere right now what I -raised and lot of my relatives, too. Dey would take care of me if I -could get there, I would not have to live like I living here. I see -better without glasses dan I do with dem, I don't read any way. I belong -to de St. Paul A.M.E. Church, but haven't been able to go for six years -but twice. I don't git no help from de relief and we need help de worst -way. My grandniece tries to work when she can get it, but she is sick, -too. - - - - -Clay Smith - - - *Interview with Clay Smith,* - *Hannibal, Missouri.* - - _Clay Has Vivid Memory_ - -Clay (Carrie) Smith, now living at 612 Butler Street, Hannibal, -Missouri, was born in slavery shortly before the Civil War on the farm -of Joe Maupin about five miles west of Hannibal. Her present residence -on Butler Street is part of the way up the hill overlooking Mark Twain -Avenue (formerly Palmyra Avenue) and facing Cardiff Hill. Her mother's -home was on Palmyra Avenue. Her mother's name was Luckett. Following is -Clay's story as she told it: - -"I was borned right here in Marion County. Dere was ten of us children -in de family. We belonged to Joe Maupin and Sarah Ann Maupin. We called -Mrs. Maupin 'Miss Spatsie'. Mother was brought here by de Maupins from -Virginia. Father was born near New London in Ralls County. He belonged -to de preacher priest. He was one of dose hardshelled, ironsides -Baptists. Father run away to Illinois during de war and we ain't never -saw him again. - -"Three of my sisters was bound out to de Maupin children when dey was -married and dey done moved somewhere in Monroe County. I knowed of only -one slave in our family dat was sold, and dat was my Aunt Harriet. She -was sold on de block down on Fourth Street right here in Hannibal. I was -only five or six years old den. - -"After de war my mother worked for Mr. Maupin for three years. Mother -bought a house on Palmyra Avenue here in Hannibal den, and Mr. Maupin -would help mother to make de payments by giving her work. - -"Dere was only a few houses down on Palmyra Avenue den. Old Mrs. Vail -had a hotel, or tavern dey called it in dem days, over across de street. -Beyond de hill (Cardiff Hill) was all woods and we could see bears and -deers and tigers over dere. (Of course this is untrue. That was Mark -Twain's playground years before.) - -"Dey didn't raise children den like dey does now. Dey don't mind at all -now. When we was across de street and didn't mind we got a whippin' so -dat we would fall over in de brush and when we come home we got another -whippin',--we always got two whippins. Nowadays de youngsters runs -'round all over de town and dey don't pay no mind to nobody. - -"Over on dat hill was a pes' house where dey took people with smallpox. -Dey died thick and dey hauled 'em away at night. Dey carried torches and -hauled 'em in wagons. When dey took someone by to the pes' house, old -Man Cogner would go ahead and holler, 'Smallpox!' We would all run and -hide 'cause we was scared. Dat was five or six years after we moved -here. - -"Dere was no houses 'round here den, but now I look out and see what de -Lord has done. De Bible say de new would take place of de old and things -would be changed. - -"I worked in de old hotel down dere 'cross from de depot. It was de -Ketrens Hotel den, for about fourteen years, and den I worked for de -Claytons for about thirteen years. I can't do nothin' now, 'cause I is -too old. I gets a small pension. Dis is my house, but dey is a mortgage -on it and dey might come and take it away from me. I belongs to de -Baptist Church on Center Street, but I don't go very often no more. My -brother lives with me. He is dat one-legged man you sees in de City Park -most of de time. He gets a pension, too. My oldest brother died last -week. He was blind." - - - - -Gus Smith - - - *Interview with Gus Smith,* - *Rolla, Missouri.* - - _Slaves Were Well Fed_ - -"I was born in 1845, on de fourth of July, near Rich Fountain, Osage -County, Mo., not far from Jefferson City. My father's name was Jim -Messersmith, and my mother's maiden name was Martha Williams. I was -called August Messersmith until I was old enough to vote, den I changed -it to plain 'Gus Smith'. My friends nick-named me 'Chinie' and I am -called dat today. - -"My master's name was Bill Messersmith and he called hisself a -Pennsylvania Dutchman. His father settled in Missouri, near Jefferson -City many years before de war. He owned 1,500 acres of land. The old -man, my master's father, had a good many slaves but de chillun didn't -have so many after de old man died. Rufus, the old man's son and my -master's brother took one of de Negro boys; his sister, Manisee, took a -Negro girl. These two, Rufus and Manisee never married and lived with my -master. Zennie, another sister, took a girl and a boy. She married a man -by de name of Goodman and my master took my father and my mother. - -"My master's father, before he died, told his chillun, dat at his death -he wanted each child to put their slaves out to work until dey earned -$800 a piece, to earn their own freedom, in dat way each slave paid it -dem selves. He did not believe it was right to keep dem in slavery all -their lives. But de war came and dey were free without having to work it -out. - -"We all wore home-spun clothes, made of wool mostly. Mother carded, spun -and wove all our clothes. My master let us come and go pretty much as we -pleased. In fact we had much more freedom dan de most of de slaves had -in those days. He let us go to other places to work when we had nothing -to do at home and we kept our money we earned, and spent it to suit -ourselves. We had it so much better dan other slaves dat our neighbors -would not let their slaves associate with us, for fear we would put -devilment in their heads, for we had too much freedom. My father and -mother had their own cabin to live in, with their family, but de rest of -de slaves stayed with our mistress. My father's relation lived within -ten miles of us. Dey came to see us but dat was about all de company we -had. - -"We used to sing all the old plantation songs, but my father and mother -were not such good singers. We all had good times along with de work. -During Christmas time, and de whole month of January, it was de rulin' -to give de slaves a holiday in our part of de country. A whole month, to -go and come as much as we pleased and go for miles as far as we wanted -to, but we had better be back by de first of February. If we wanted to -go through a territory where it was hard to travel, or get by, we got a -pass from our master. - -"We had quiltins, dancin', makin' rails, for days at a time. My -goodness! We don't have nothin' to eat now like we did then. All kinds -of game, wild ducks, geese, squirrels, rabbits, 'possum, pigeons and -fried chicken. My! women in those days could cook. Great big 'pound -cakes' a foot and a half high. You don't see such things, now-a-days. - -"I remember my father shooting so many pigeons at once that my mother -just fed dem to de hogs. Just shoot the game from our back yard. I have -seen de wild pigeons so thick dey looked like storm clouds coming. I've -seen dem so thick dey broke tree limbs down. Ducks and geese de same -way. We could kill dem by tow sacks full, with clubs. White folks and -colored folks came to these gatherings, from miles around, sat up all -night dancin', eatin', and drinkin'. People kept whiskey by de barrel in -those days. You see, Miss, in those days dey just loaded up ten or -twelve bushel of corn, took it to de 'still-house' and traded it for a -barrel of whiskey. Not much selling in those days, everything was -traded, even to labor. Our folks would tell us to go and help so-and-so -and we done it. - -"Mother was de cook in those days at our place. De hewed log house we -lived in was very big, about five or six rooms. In times of our -holidays, we always had our own musicians. Sometimes we sent ten or -twelve miles for a fiddler. He'd stay a week or so in one place and den -he would go on to de next farm, maybe four or five miles away, and dey -had a good time for a week. When we didn't have much work, we would get -up about five o'clock every morning, but in busy season we had to be up -and ready to work at daybreak. There was plenty of work for every one -den, even to de little darkies, if only to pull weeds. We raised wheat, -corn, cotton, tobacco, cabbage, potatoes, sheep, hogs and cattle. Had -plenty of everything to eat. - -"Our closest neighbors was de Thorntons. Ol' man Thornton did not allow -his slaves to go no place. He was a rough man, a low heavy set fellow, -weighed about one hundred and sixty pounds. He was mean to his slaves. -He whupped dem all de time. I've seen their clothes sticking to their -backs, from blood and scabs, being cut up with de cowhide. He just -whupped dem because he could. He use to say he allus give his niggers a -'breakfast spell ever' mornin'! Dat is he whupped dem every morning. I -remember he had a nigger woman about seventy years old on his place. De -Thorntons did not feed their slaves, dey was nearly starved. One night -that ol' woman was so hungry she stole a chicken from her master, ol' -Thornton, and was cooking it in her cabin. He found it out some way and -started to her cabin, and caught her, while she had it on boiling. He -was so mad, he told her to get a spoon and eat every bite before she -stopped. It was scalding hot but he made her do it. She died right away; -her insides were burned. - -"Why, ol' Thornton was dat mean dat he killed his own son. He just beat -him to death with de whip-stock of dat cowhide, a whip made of buckskin. -It was like dis. De boy had a girl he was courtin' in another town. He -started to see her on Saturday noon. His daddy told him to be back by -Sunday night. But de boy did not get back before Monday morning, ten -o'clock. His father was in de field working and saw him coming down de -road. He went to meet him and met him at de gate. He asked why he did -not get back sooner and lit into beating him with de whip stock, de part -dat should be de whip handle. He beat him so hard dat de boy died in -about ten hours. It aroused de neighborhood and dey began to plan a -lynching party. He got wind of it some way and got all his slaves -together and pulled out. He left dat place and no one ever knowed where -he went. Dat happened before de end of de war. - -"There was a lot of run-a-way slaves in those days. I never saw any of -dem but I heard de folks talk about dem. Many passed through our part of -de country. In time of slavery, people were sold like cattle or hogs. -There was no sale bills dat we seen, because folks in dem days was -usually honest and did not have a lot of red tape in buying and selling. -Our master would not sell any of us. He did not believe in separating -us, and tried to keep us together. He didn't have any trouble with his -slaves at all. He was as good a man as ever lived and we did pretty much -as we pleased. - -"He married before de war, but his first wife died a few months later. -He married a year after his wife died. He went to Pennsylvania and came -back and went to California for about a year. Before he left he made my -father boss. My father stayed on de place and took care of everything. -He was boss all during de war. - -"When the battle of Wilson Creek was fought up near Springfield, most -all de soldiers passed by our house. After dey passed den came de -bushwhackers. Dey stole all de niggers dey could, running dem down south -to sell. Dey came to our place in de morning; it must have been about -1862-63. De whole family of colored folks was home, 'cepting my father. - -"Dey looked across de road and seen another house and asked us whose -house it was. We told dem it was our master's house. Dey saw we had a -mare in de yard and told us to saddle her up. And told my oldest brother -to be ready to go with dem when dey come back. Dey went half way to my -master's house and for some reason wheeled and came back. My mother -looked out de door and seen them coming and said: 'Here they come.' - -She said to my oldest brother, 'Get under dat puncheon floor, maybe dey -won't take August,' meaning me. I was about 12 or 13 years old den. We -had a great big hearth, de rocks and puncheon came right up to it. My -mother raised de one end of a puncheon and my brother hid there under de -floor. De bushwhackers came back to de house and searched everyplace, -failed to find him, even raised de floor and looked under, but my -brother had crawled so far up in de corner dey did not see him. Dey -asked my mother where he was and said, 'By God! We want to know.' Mother -answered and said she sent him down to de field to get some corn for de -hogs and told me to run down there and look for him. - -"Well I did. I run down in dat field and am going yet. I stayed out in -dat woods for four days and nights with nothing to eat but what wild -grapes and hazel nuts I could find. I knew better dan to go back dere, -but I did not know where to go. I fell on a plan to go to my young -missus, Zennie. Dey lived off de main road, two miles from where we -lived. When I got to her home, it was in de evening about four o'clock. -I saw my cousin, Melie, fifteen or sixteen years old, but was afraid to -speak to her. I saw her out a piece from de barn, but I wouldn't let her -see me. I stayed all night in de barn, but I wouldn't let her see me. I -stayed all night in de barn and next morning I peeped out de window and -saw her again. She was picking beans. I hollered and she recognized me -and asked me if I wasn't August. I said yes. She told me to come on out -and go with her, dat my mother and all of dem was at their house den. My -oldest brother, Jim, was there too. He was four years older dan me. - -"Den I went down to de house and dey soon fixed me something to eat. But -only a little because dey were afraid it might make me sick. My mother -told me to stay with Miss Zennie. Miss Zennie had married de second time -to a man by de name of George McGee. Her first husband, Dave Goodman, -was killed right at de start of de war by a gang of robbers something -like de bushwhackers, who went in gangs of ten and fifteen, stealing -niggers or anything else dey could get their hands on. - -"George McGee and my brother Jim hid out in de bluffs at Rollin's Ferry, -a place where ferry boats ran. George McGee hid because he did not want -to go in de army. So he takes my brother and hides in de bluffs. Dey -both came to de house for provisions about twelve o'clock dat night and -took me with dem. We camped out dat night and next morning dey said to -me: 'You stay here. Dey is out of meat at de house.' So dey went back to -de house and killed and dressed a young heifer and came back at night to -get me. We had a good time, eating supper and playing. Along in de night -I heard something like horses hoofs hitting de ground. I told my mother -and she said, 'You don't hear nothin'.' - -"George McGee, de young master said, 'Wait, he is right. I hears -someting, too!' - -"We jumped up and went out and down a steep holler and made it back to -our camp dat night yet. Next morning we wondered who it could have been -dat we heard. Dat night we went back to see how de folks was getting on -and found out it was my own father and our own master who had come a -hunting for us. If we had known, we would not have run. - -"My master told his sister, Miss Zennie to keep us hid out of de way, -that we were doing all right. I stayed in dat bluff about two years, -until de close of de war, I never saw my father and master for over a -year. I saw my mother every time I went to de house for something to -eat, about twelve o'clock at night. My father had to hide out, too. He -kept de stock out in de bushes, watching after de master's affairs while -he was away. - -"We stayed hid until dey took General Lee. Den we went back to ol' -master's house and it was not long until peace was declared. Our house -was about a quarter of a mile from de master's, on a farm he had bought -from an old Dutchman, about one hundred and sixty acres. One morning, -ol' master come over early and said: 'Jim, by God! You are a free man -dis morning, as free as I am. I can't hold you any longer. Now take your -family and go over on dat hundred and sixty acres I bought and go to -work.' He was giving us all a chance to pay out de farm for ourselves a -home. My father said: 'There's nothing to go with it to help clear it -and live.' To which ol' master answered: 'There's de smoke-house, take -all you want and I'll furnish you with everything else you need for a -year, until you get a start.' He allowed us to use anything to work -with, he had on his place. - -"Den we went to work. Ol' master said, 'I've got all de land my heart -could wish but none of it is cleared off. Go down dere with your boys -and I'll send two men, both white (Irishmen, Jim and Tom Norman) and all -of you clear off dat land. I'll give you five years lease to clear all -you can. All you clear, you can have half." Well, we cleared fifty acres -dat winter. We made rails, fenced it and put it all in corn dat first -year. There was six of us to do dis, my cousin joined my father, -brother, and myself, and de two white men. - -"We had it cleared by the first of March--all ready to plow in 1865. My -father raised his own sheep and cotton, and from dis my mother made our -clothes. Father cleared thirty acres on his place de same year and sowed -it all in wheat. De first year we got 817 bushel of wheat and 1500 -bushel of corn, it was all new land. Corn really growed in dem days. We -hoed it by hand. You don't see corn like dat now. We worked out every -little weed. Every little darkey worked in dem days. - -"My grandad, Godfry, owned a place called de old Potter's place, near -Vichy Springs, Vichy, Missouri, not far from where we lived. He bought -it from a man who used to make pottery. Grandfather made his own mill to -grind grain for bread. In dose days there was no steam operated mills -and few water mills. Sometimes we had to go as much as twenty miles to -grind corn a bushel of corn. So grandfather made his own burr to grind -corn and wheat. It was as big as any burr in de large mills, but it was -turned by hand power. It was made of limestone rock, a great big stone -about two and a half foot across. De top burr would probably weigh about -three or four hundred pounds. Da bottom case would weigh a thousand -pounds or more. There was a hole in de top stone, where de grain flowed -freely to de bottom and ground out on the big thick stone below. I -ground many a bushel of meal on it myself. I don't know how grandfather -got de large stones in place, for it was there as long as I could -remember. I just wonder if it isn't some place there yet. I would love -to go and find out and see de old burr again. - -"People call these hard times, shucks, they don't know what hard times -is. Those were hard days, when folks had to go on foot twenty miles to -mill. I remember in my early days, we used cattle for teams to haul, -start at four o'clock in de morning, drive all day, stay over night and -grind de next day. Sometimes de crowd ahead of us was so big we had to -stay over for three or four days. Sometimes we would be until eleven or -twelve at night getting home. Gone at least two days and one night. I -had to make trips like dis many times. - -"Sometimes we could take a couple of bushel of corn and go horseback, -but twice a year, Spring and Fall, we would take eight or ten bushel of -wheat, six and eight bushel of corn or according to what we needed and -take de cattle and a old wooden axle wagon, walking and driving de -cattle all de way there and back. We drove or led dem with only a rope -around dem. - -"De last trip I made millin', I drove for Bill Fannins, a yoke of young -three-year old cattle. Wasn't even broke. Went twenty-five miles, drove -all de way, walking, while he sat up in de wagon. Sometimes de wagon -dragged in de mud, de old wooden axle burying so deep we couldn't hardly -get it out, going through timber and dodging brush. Some folks went even -further dan dat. Sometimes a mill might be four or five miles from you -but dey got out of fix and you would have to go to another one. Maybe -twenty-five miles or more. - -"There was not many good doctors in those days, but my grandfather was -an old fashioned herb doctor. I remember him well. I was about -twenty-five years old when he died. Everybody knew him in dat country -and he doctored among de white people, one of de best doctors of his -kind. He went over thirty miles around to people who sent for him. He -was seldom at home. Lots of cases dat other doctors gave up, he went and -raised them. He could cure anything. - -"When I was sick one time, I was den about eighteen or nineteen years -old, my folks had Dr. Boles, from Lane's Prairie and Dr. Mayweather from -Vichey, to come and tend me. Dey both gave me up. I had typhoid and -pneumonia. Dese doctors were de best to be found but dey could do -nothing and said I was as good as dead. My grandfather was gone, had -come to Rolla, doctoring Charley Stroback's child whose clothes had -caught fire and he was burned badly. Grandfather could 'blow out' fire. - -"He got home about four o'clock in de morning after de doctors had done -give me up. He felt my pulse and said he didn't know whether I was dead -or alive. No pulse but he said I felt warm. He asked my grandmother if -she had any light bread baked. She said yes and got it for him. He told -her to butter it and lay the butter side down over my mouth and if it -melted I was still living. She did this and soon she said, 'Yes, he is -still alive. Now go to work and get a little whiskey and butter and beat -it together good and drop just two drops in his mouth, and in four hours -drop two more.' - -"He sat beside me, layed his hands on my breast and about ten o'clock de -next day I began to come around. I realized he was there and he asked me -if I knew him which I did. - -"In 'blowing fire', my grandfather simply blew on de burn and de fire -and pain was gone. It was a secret charm, handed down from generation to -generation. He said only one could be told. He told my Aunt Harriet and -she could 'blow fire' de same as my grandfather. - -"I remember one good old doctor in dis part of de country. Old Dr. -Stark. He was as good a doctor, de finest we had in those days. He could -chew tobacco and spit enough to drown a hog. A lot of de old herb -remedies my grandfather used, I can still remember. He used one called -'white root'. It is a bush dat grows here. In de spring of de year, when -its leaves bloom out, in de morning hours, when de sun shines on it, it -looks just like bright tin. It has an awful bitter taste. It was used -for mighty near any ailment. He had another herb, he used, called -'remedy weed'. It is a bright green looking weed dat grows around -springs. It is also used for many ailments. Another one was sarsaparilla -root. It grows here, lots of it. He went to de woods and gathered it all -hisself getting wild cherry bark, ditney, penny royal, and camomile -root. Others he gathered and dried some to make teas and others to put -in whiskey. - -"Dogwood buds, some kind of a medicine used as a laxative. Ginseng was -another remedy. I do not know what it was used for, but it was powerful -good, and one remedy he used was called 'spicewood'. It was also a -healthful drink, like store tea. You gather it in de fall, using de stem -or stocky part, break it up and dry it. I used it all de time while I -worked on de river, at de tourist camps. It has a fine flavor and it's -good for you. - -"Indian turnip grows by de thousands in de woods here. Great places of -it, looks like turnips, grows in big bunches and bright red. Colored -folks used to use de Indian turnip in slave times. Dey would take dis -and dry it, pulverize it and tie it in big quantities around their feet -to keep off de trail of bloodhounds. No bloodhound could trail a bit -further after smelling it. It was strong like red pepper, burns like -everything and colored folks running away use it all de time. - -"Grandfather also used 'butter nut root', some call it white walnut. You -take one dose of dis and it will cure de worst case of chills, no matter -how bad. Take two tablespoons for a dose. It is as severe as croton oil. -By golly, it won't leave a thing in you, clears you out and one dose -does de work. Oh, man, but it is bitter. - -"He used golden seal, a medicine found in places here, very costly, -worth $7 to $8 a pound now. I don't know what he used dem all for, but I -do remember of him getting dem in their proper season, and kept dem -always on hand. - -"For sore throat or quinsy, he had some sort of tea. He used onion tea, -too. He took an onion, roasted it in its hull in ashes, squeezed out de -juice and added a little sugar and gave it to de patient. For -rheumatism, he used poke root, dried it and put it in whiskey. De only -thing dat is good for rheumatics. There were many more remedies, but I -can't recall them now." - - - - -Ann Stokes - - - *Interview with "Aunt" Ann Stokes,* - *91 Years old, Caruthersville, Missouri.* - -One of the most interesting characters of all Pemiscot County today is -an old negro called "Aunt" Ann Stokes. She was born a slave "out hyar at -Cottonwood Pint in 1844, a year of high water". Nineteen thirty-six -brings her to her ninety third year; all of which have been spent in -Pemiscot County, except for an occasional visit to relatives. In the -early years of her life she was known as "a good hard workin' nigger". -Now she takes things more quietly, especially since she has lost her -eyesight and can only hear when you shout very loudly. All day long she -does very little, just "sits and rocks." For a very old woman she is -certainly fine looking. Most old people are usually wrinkled. Aunt Ann -looks to be only in her sixties. - -A sort of creepy feeling comes to one in the presence of this old negro. -She always leans close to you as she speaks, lays her hand on your arm, -now and then pointing her finger. Once and awhile she smiles showing her -few remaining teeth in Graiae fashion. She speaks slowly in a high voice -not at all shaky. Every story she tells is glorified and exaggerated. -She is anxious to talk and likes to have visitors. Never does she fail -to mention her first "schoolin'"; she tells, "I learnt my alphabet in de -middle ob a field unnerneath a 'simmon tree. My cousin teached me, you -know we weren't 'lowed to hab books in dem days. They didn't want us to -know nothin'". When you mention the War Between the States, you have hit -a favorite subject of hers. Especially, does she pride herself on her -war stories. - -At Cottonwood Point she remembers standing on the bank of the river to -"see transpots goin' south. Done busted through up north here. Fom de -steam ob de boats we was uz wet us if we'z a-standin' in a shower ob -rain. Sa many soldiers dat dey wuz all standin aroun de pilot houses. -Dey wuz goin' to Fort Pillar on a hill in Tennessee. Sech a shootin' as -day was when dey turn dem cannons loose. Ize tol dat fur three mile down -de river you couldn't tell if it's blood or water. - -"An ol' soldier tol' me how dey capture Vicksburg. Dey put a man on a -ol' skint-up mule an send him to de fort to spy. When he got thar he say -he's a-runnin' way fom de Yankees. He's so pitiful lookin' an' so naked -he couldn't hide his nakedness: so dey took him in. He stay aroun' de -fort fur three days lookin' at everthing. He seen how it wuz all fixed. -Den one mornin' he come up missin' and dey try to git on de track ob -him. But it warn't no use 'cause one mornin' de man who'd been on de ol' -skint-up mule come back wid sum Yanks an' took de fort." - - ---- - -"You cud allas hyar de Yankees at Kennett or Hornersville wen day's -aroun'. One day I'ze over to see Melindy and I say: 'Melindy, does you -all hyar sompin? Soun' like de Yankees, look out de winder and see if -you sees anything.' - -"She say, 'I don' see nothin'. Dey ain't no Yankees aroun' hyar.' - -"Well, I jest sit thar 'till I caint stan' it no more. I gets up and -looks out de winder myself. Thar dey come down de road and I knows theys -Yanks 'cause I see de blue ob de coats. Pretty soon dey ride up to de -house. Dey yell out: 'You all got any Gurrillers aroun' hyar?' - -"Me an' Melindy stan' in de doah. I say, 'Melindy you go out dar an tell -'em.' - -"Melindy start across de yard when de leader yell, 'I don' want you! De -truf ain't in your yaller body.' (Melindy was a mulatto girl) 'Hey! you, -you other girl, come hyar!' - -"'Yes suh,' I say an' walk out de doah in de yard. - -"'Got any Gurrillers aroun' hyar?', he yell. - -"'No suh!' sez I, 'Taint non aroun' hyar.' - -"'Know Mr. Douglass?', he say pointin' his finger to a house 'cross de -prairie. - -"'Yes suh,' siz I, 'I knows him wen I sees him.' - -"'Has he got any Gurrillers thar?' - -"'I don't know, suh.' - -"'Wal, thars a collad girl thar ain't they?' - -"'Yes suh, but I don' go round her no mo. We ain't speakin'. Reckon I -ain't been on Mr. Douglasses place foah six month. I don't know nothin' -'bout it. You all better go see fur youshsevs.' - -"He leab den an ride ovah to Douglasses place. I seen Bud come out in de -yard. He call Bud ovah to de fence and talk to him. 'Bout dat time I see -men comin' out de back ob de house an chargin' ovah de fence into de -thicket whar warn't nothin' but lots ob trees, tare blanket, an -blackberry bushes. Right den and dare dey had a scrummage. De Yanks set -fire to ever' buildin' on de place. De blaze wuz a-goin' up to de -elements! Not a thing did they take out ob de house ceptin' feather bed -for a wounded Yankee. - -"Mr. Douglass, he hear about de shootin'. He tuk to de woods an stay fur -a spell." - - ---- - -"I ain't had nothin' scare me so bad as one time I went down to de lot -to feed. A big ol' black cat run right in font ob me and jump up on de -corn. Dar he sat, sech a big cat, good big twice! Wal, it scairt me so I -started to bleedin' at de nose. I come back home as fas as I could. The -ol' Doc he couldn't stop it, I couldn't stop it, seem like nobody can -stop it. My blood bled so much it look de color ob sassafras tea. De -second day Emma, she my daughter say, 'De black cat done gone. I cain't -fin' it nowhere.' - -"Den my nose stop bleedin!'" - - ---- - -"What's a cure fur Rheumitize you say? They's jus one cure for dat, I -knows! Ain't I had it so bad I couln't raise up to step ovah a fence -ral? Take a raw irish potato and pack it in your pocket. One day I'ze -walkin' down de street an I meets Mr. Huffman. I say, 'Mr. Huffman, -how's your Rheumatize?' - -"He say, 'Aunt Ann, 'taint no better. I thinks I go down to Hot Springs -fur a spell.' - -"'Humph,' says I, 'Don' you go way down dar to git well. You don't hab -to do dat. You git you a raw Irish potato and carry it wid you all de -time. Wen you change yoah pants, change dat potato ober to de clean -pants. Wen de potato git dry clean through, you won't hev no more -Rheumatize.' - -"Nex' time I see him he say hez fine. Now ain't dat proof enough dat -potatoes cure Rheumitizm?" - - ---- - -"One mawnin' I gets up to make a fish in de stobe. It's fearful cold an -de moon is still a-shinin'. I put on my coat an start to work. While de -stove am heatin' up I looks out de winder. I see sompin' queer lookin' -out in de garden, sompin' standin' 'bout knee high all bright and shiny. -I wonder what kin' ob a ghost has got loose now. I takes a broom an -sneaks out de doah. Kinda haf shets may eyes kaze I'ze scairt to death. -Wham! I hits dat ting an scatters it all ovah de place. Warn't nothin' -but an ol' cabbage, a po frozen cabbage!" - - ---- - -"Does I know Ol' Mexico Cole? Yessum, I reckon I do. He us a dawk man, a -tolable dawk man, wid black hair an dawk eyes. He us what you say a -medium built man. Yessah, Ol' Mexico Cole! He wuz a doctah. I 'member de -night he wuz on his way home wen de storm cum up. De lighten lightened -an de thunder thundered! Sho' wuz a powful storm! He'z a-ridin' along on -his hoss wen all ob a sudden a big lim' done fall off a tree an smash -him flat. Dat's mighty bad, I tell yo, mighty bad. Yessuh, ol' Mexico -Cole, I 'members him. - -"One time he walk on a tradin' boat an he see a bottle full ob sompin' -he don't know what. He picks it up an smell a deep breaf. Dat really -frowed him out fur a spell. Dey had to give 'em a half a bottle ob -melted grease! Yessum, I 'members Ol' Mexico Cole." - -Two of Aunt Ann's favorite songs are: - - I - - "By'm by don' you griebe atter me - (This line repeated four times) - - II - - Wen I'm gone don' you griebe atter me - " " " " " " " " - " " " " " " " " - By'm by don' you griebe atter me. - - III - - De Lawd has prepared de way an - has carried my soul away - (This line repeated three times) - By'm by don' you griebe atter me. - - IV - - Wen I'm dead don' you griebe atter me - (This line repeated three times) - By'm by don' you griebe atter me." - -The second song is sung by a "mighty clevah woman" to her lover. The -negro woman is at home rocking her baby, her husband is sitting not far -away. A weird little whistle is heard. The negro woman sings to warn her -lover of danger. - - "Oh, de win's in de wes', - An' de cuckoo's in de nes', - No lodgin' hyar foah you, - By you baby by yoo. - - Oh, de devil's in de man, - Cain't you unnerstan', - No lodgin' hyar foah you, - By you baby by yoo. - - (Repetition of the first verse.)" - - - - -Edward Taylor - - - *Interview with Edward Taylor,* - *St. Louis, Missouri.* - *(Written by Grace E. White,* - *St. Louis, Mo.)* - - _Born "Around 1812"_ - -The subject of this sketch is Edward Taylor, exact age not known, but he -is positive he is over 115 years old. He lives in a two room frame -cottage in the rear of 8013 Dale Avenue, St. Louis County, Missouri, -with his wife of less than twelve months and says she is in her 50's. - -Taylor is a tall, slender, almost erect old man, looks well for his age, -very hard of hearing, his hair well mingled with gray. He believes God -has called him to preach holiness to the world, and it is a hard matter -to keep his mind on an interview for his ex-slave experiences instead of -preaching to his interviewer. His story follows: - -"I was born in Cheneyville, Louisiana. I guess around 1812. But I don't -know. I do know, I was owned by Marse William Chaney. He was a rich old -slave owner. I thought in dem days white folks was God, didn't know no -better. - -"I 'member well when de stars fell, I saw 'em twixt midnight and day and -tried to ketch some of 'em. I was grown, too, most. I wasn't scared -'cause I thought long as I staid where de white folks was, dey would -protect me from all harm, even de stars in de elements, storms, or what -not, just stay near de white folks and I had nothing to worry about. I -thought white folks made de stars, sun and everything on de earth. I -knowed nothing but to be driven and beat all de time. I seed em take de -bottom rail out of de rail fences and stick de nigger's head in de hole -den jam de balance of de fence down on his neck, and beat him till he's -stiff. Den I seed 'em put 40 or 50 slaves in stock and as high as 300 at -a time and punish 'em, till some of 'em died. It was terrible. Chaney -done his slaves so bad when he taken down sick, he just suffered till de -skin dropped off his bones. Nobody do any thing for him but me, -everybody, even his own folks was scared of him, didn't want to touch -him he looked and smelt so bad. But I just stuck hard by him till he -died. I took care of Jeff Davis for years, long fore he ever got -president of des United States. Yes sir, I did. When de stars fell -people all runnin' and hollerin' judgment done come. I didn't see no -need in all dat 'citement, as long as de white folks livin' I thought -they could keep us niggers livin'. - -"I used to hear de white folks readin' de paper 'bout de war, and -readin' de Yankees beaten 'em, and I wondered what de world is Yankees. -I thought dey talking 'bout birds of de air or sumpin'. After while -Essex Gun Boat got all de South to Vicksburg. I found out den what -Yankees was. Yes, sir, I did. My slave owners would make de blacksmith -make buck horns and fasten 'em like a crown on de slave women's heads -and brad 'em on dere so dey would know 'em by dat mark. Dey was so tight -and heavy for dem women to carry around dey often times swell up dere -head so dey couldn't hardly see out dere eyes. - -"I worked naked most my time I didn't know nothing 'bout pride. Dey had -looms some places to make hemp coats and jackets. I had to make rails, -drive wagons, and make cross tires in a blacksmith shop. We had to have -a pass to go any place. De patrollers would git us and make us show our -pass, and we got to be in our cabin by 9 o'clock. I got one pound of fat -meat a week. If you got sick de doctor tell you to not lie to the old -Marse or old Miss and you git all right. After de war was over I had to -cut two cords of wood at night and work all day for one penny, and we -could buy a ginger cake long as I was tall nearly and it last us all -week. You could git it for a penny and we called it a stage plank. It -was long and thin. I never kin forgit when old Marse William Chaney -died. We fell to his brother Marse George Chaney. De wife I married -belonged to de same people owned me. Marse George chained a host of dem -niggers together and sold 'em, and bought some more. He bought four wid -my wife at one time but he sold 'em in droves. Marse William owned us by -de hundreds. I 'member I was 30 years old when I married. My wife had -two chillin but dey dead long ago. I don't know how old my wife was when -I married her though. I know dis here wife I got now since she was a -baby. We jes' been married less dan a year. I am de first colored man to -own a piece a ground in Lincoln Terrace, and de oldest man, white or -black, to ever apply for a marriage license in the State of Missouri. I -owns dis whole block from Dale to Harter Avenue and am taking care of -four families living on my property, dat don't pay me a penny, and -haven't for years. I never been to school a day in my life. Just -trustin' God for my gittin along, and my understandin'. An automobile -run over me two years ago and I had another accident in Jefferson City, -Missouri one year ago, but am still able to go and preach the word of -God. - - - - -Tishey Taylor - - - *Interview with Mrs. Tishey Taylor,* - *age 77, Poplar Bluff, Missouri.* - -"I wusn't very old during slave time but I worked, yes sir, I did, and -my por 'mammy chile', it wus from daylight ta' dark, and on good light -nights it wus way up in the night. Mah mammy's name was 'Katie', -Katie-Cherry, an ma father wus William Walturf, or somethin' like 'at, -never did know good 'cause he never stayed wif us in our cabin no how -and we never knowed him much. - -"Shap Phillips wus our marster and he brought my parents 'fore I wus -bawn, frum Frank Parker, (we jus said 'Ol Parker',) and brought us from -Woofalton to New Madrid County. 'Ol Man Shap', (that what we call him,) -had two sons, one name 'Amos' and one name 'Little Murry'. I took care -'Little Murry' fer ma, 'Task' and I warn't much biggner him but did I -let him git hurt? Not me chile! - -"'Ole Man Shap' owned 'bout two, three hundred us slaves and he had -cabins built all over and around his plantation. This house is por nuf' -but then we jes had one little room and 'irt floos and no windas, -sometime jus holes out. - -"Some them slaves cooks in their cabin, not what they wanted but what -'Marse' gibd 'em, most times wus beans an' 'tators and corn bred and -milk, and some times 'round hog killin' time he pass out the 'jowl -meat'. - -"I jest don' 'member but it seems we did eat three times a day. I wus -allays so glad to hear dat bell ring else a horn blow. Youse seed that -kind of shell like calded 'Konk horn'--and could that 'nigger' blow -lowd! - -"Mammy cooked in the big house for 'Marse', and then som' time when her -work was done in there she was took to the fields and lef' me and my -brother and sister by our selves 'till she come and som' time when she -did com' she would run in scared-like and lock de door and motion us -quiet and say, 'Dey will think I'se sleep'. I didn't understand all that -stuff den but fore long I did understan' what I'se tellin yu. - -"'Nother thing our beds wus poor stuff, but mammy said she wus allays -'dog tired' and could 'a slep on the ground. They wus straw ticks and -hard. Law no, chile, we didn't known what springs wus. - -"One day I 'member bad, 'Ol Man Shap' sol' granma, she was mammy's mammy -and all we ever hear, she was sol' down souf. We knowed not to do no -takin' on for if'n we did the hide would got tooken off us. - -"Mammy used to card wool and cotton and spin, then she would weave -goods. I 'member one time, I wus little, I played 'rat under de loom'. I -would crawl up and grab mammy and say 'e-e-e-k', and pinch her. She say, -'I'll puts a stop to that "rat" bothering me when I got work to do!' -That didn' stop me but she sho' make me wish it had the nex' time I do -it. - -"I never knowed Sunday from Monday, 'cept on Sunday the white man come -and we are called out under the brush arbor, didn' have no work in the -fiel' at day, and he stand up 'fore us and preach out a little -green-back book; I didn't know what it was then, but I knows now it was -a Bible. I 'member every 'preach day' he say, 'Mind you not to steal -from Missis or Marster'. He was plenty strong on that part. - -"Well do I 'member dat 'nigger' overseer, big, 'smart aleck'; he wus -called de 'nigger driver'. He say 'hurry up there, you get the hide -split on you lazy back'. I wusn't hardly big enouf but the bigger ones -when they wus gib a task to do, they better do it in a hurry else they -would get the 'hide split' and some time salt put on. - -"I never had no book larnin' 'cept two, three times when Miss Fanny La -Forge, she wus the white school teacher, and she tried to larn me, she -didn' have much time and couldn' do much with it. But I allays says, -'Give me good ol' common horse sense', and not braggin, Miss, but I have -got that; always did have. Mos' these educated ones are smarty, big -head, smarty, and I never did want to be that way 'tall. - -"If they wus jails then fo us slaves I never seed one, jes whippin' fo' -punishin', some one wus gittin' it all the time. - -"'Ole Parker' like mammy and all her people and he tol' 'Ol Man Shap' -if'n he lashed my mammy and her family he would com' and take us back, -'cause we wus good and didn't need no punishment but that was the only -reason that we wusn't lashed like the rest of them. - -"I was tellin' you about Sunday meetin', none of us had a Bible 'cept -the white man, and I don't know where he got it from. I never did have -one 'cept once and it burned up in my house in Advance. I liked to look -through it but I didn't know a word it said. - -"Times it seems I can hear them sing, I didn't sing much at the meetin' -'cause I was too little, but the others sang, 'Hark From the Tomb', and -'I am a Soldier of the Cross'. When the preacher man shook he haid and -stomp his feet and yell, I say to mammy: 'What that man mammy? What he -doin?' And she say: 'Hush', and put her hand over my mouf. I knowed -plenty well to stay hushed too. Any babtising went on I never seed any -of it, never knowed nothin' 'bout anything lak that then. - -"The older ones had some fun too about that time, maybe once week or -more some one get 'mission' from his Marster and gib a 'hoe down!' -(calls dance now.) Any one that went from all the close plantations got -'mission' from the Marster or overseer to go but they had to be home at -a certain time or they would wish they hadn't went and some time they -would slip off and go out mission', if ever they wus caught they got -'it', and plenty of it. I heard sister say, 'Mammy I would like to go to -the hoedown tonight'. Mammy say: 'Think you can come back in time?' -Sister say, 'Don' know mammy,' then mammy say, 'Better save your sef -chile'. Then sister say, 'Well, I better go to bed then'. But you could -hear the fiddle and the hollerin' all over, and 'twas hard to stay 'way. - -"At Christmas time we knowd 'bout that and both of mammy's owners gib -her a good time. 'Ol Man Shap' alluys gib us a pair of stockings and -some candy and apples. For the men folks they sometimes get whiskey. New -Year's was 'bout the same and I don' 'member no other holidays. - -"When we got sick they was a white doctor way off somewhere that would -come, if he wus sent fo', but mos' de time 'Old Uncle Nee John' and -'Uncle Jake' would conjure us; they was called 'Voo-Doo's'. One time -sister stepped up in the meat house do'r and hurt her foot, don' know -how, Mammy tell Marster and he say, 'Tell Jake he come', an' I wus -allus' 'fraid of him and he say to sister, 'Gal, get up and walk'. She -say: 'I cain't.' He set back down and go 'M-m-m-m-m', for a longtime and -than say: 'Gal, I say get up and walk'. She say: 'I can't'. I was so -scared and mammy say to me, 'Set still there Gal, he ain't gwine to hurt -you no how', but he look so wild and mean and the next time he mumble -words over her foot she get up and walk. He have us wear a dime around -our necks fo' somethin'; don' know what tho'. I was allus such a fool -'bout money. I just liked to wear it and didn' care. - -"When some one died we didn't know what wus don' with 'em but sometime -they wus took out in the night and I heard some wus hauled off in a -little push-thing and throwed in the river and some wus put in a hole -with their clothes on. - -"'Bout that time we begin to hear stories of bein' set free. The slaves -sang at their work all day. - -"'Thank God Almity, I'll be free some day', (there are 'bout all the -words I can 'member). They sang this over and over and made a pretty -song too. Nearer time for us to be freed, the owners get meaner all the -time. Some took their slaves down in the cane brakes and hid them; -others wus kept working. 'Ol Man Shap' tell some, 'When you get free I -give you home and pay you for your work'. I guess he would too if'n he -had stayed there. - -"Them 'Blue Coats' (Northern Soldiers), wus lots meaner than the 'Brown -Coats (Gray), in the South. Them 'Blue Coats' come in and steal your -chickens and cook them over your fireplace and eat them right 'fore your -eyes. I 'member one time the 'Brown Coats' come and wanted sister. I -squalled like a panther. During and after the war, them 'Guerillas' was -a sight, dey steal, kill, and tear up, everywhere. The 'K.K.K.' was a -powerful, mean, bunch and dey would com' ater night and take people out -and whip them; ah didn't know what for. - -"I well 'member the day we wus freed, every one sang, 'Thank God Almity, -I'm free at last, free at last, free at last, thank God _Almity_, I'm -free at last, I'm free at last.' - -"'Ol Man Shap' was mad and he whipped some of his slaves and de took him -to de town jail, last I seed of him he wus sittin' in the town jail -winder, maybe died there, I don' know. After we wus free there wus -plenty of work, they couldn't whip nobody and had to pay us for the -work. Mammy cooked for Mr. Hunter and 'Riley' and 'Dalton'. She kept me -with her 'till I got 'old 'nouf to cook and then I lef' and got a job -away from der somewhere. - -"I got married 'bout 40-50 years ago to 'Baltimore' here. He is 105 -years old now. He tells me his old Miz' thought he was an '_Angle_' and -he wus almost 36 years old when the war broke out. He wus from -Lotterville County, Tennessee. He tell me people just thought bountiful -of him and they seemed to be a welcome all over the world for him. - -"He says he was called one of the finest barbers in the world, all was a -natural gift and 'man out of sight'; he barbered thousands and -thousands. His mother wus from Georgia and her name was 'Liza' and she -married Jim Taylor. Me and 'Baltimore' had eleven children since we been -married. They was Charlie, he dead, Martha, living, and not got any -kids, and Tony, dead, and Louisa and Gussie, dead. How many that--five? -Rosie dead, and left six children, part of them are here, 'Little -Baltimore' and Henry are dead, Roosevelt is living and here at home and -Robert is in a C.C. Camp, but David works in a fine hotel in St. Louis, -don' know what one the name is. - -"'Ol Man Abe Lincoln' was a fine ol' man, and I liked him, he never -freed us; but tol' us how. But 'Booker', and Jefferson Davis wusn't no -friend to the colored man that I knowed anything 'bout. - -"It is best to be free if you carry your self right you'll be free all -you days. I belongs to the Saints Church, t'aint the 'Holy Roller' and I -allys wus 'ligious but I don' know much 'bout stuff, never put no study -on it. - -"Ise just a poor old 'nigger' slave that is waitin' for the Good Lord to -come and take me home and it won't be long chile; no, 'Granny' ain't got -long." - - - - -Louis Thomas - - - *Interview with Louis Thomas,* - *St. Louis, Missouri.* - - _Slave Hitched To Plow_ - -The subject of this sketch is Louis Thomas, 93 years of age who lives at -3007 Clark Avenue with his oldest daughter, Laura Richardson and family. - -In the middle room of a 3-room brick apartment laid Louis Thomas, -confined to his bed, with a severe cold, but kind enough to be -interviewed by the writer. The old man was clean and quite composed and -said he had been interviewed so often it was a common thing to him. He -was 6 feet tall and weighed 174 when taken sick. The home was very -poorly furnished but clean. He is of dark complexion with white hair. He -said: - -"I was born in Pickens County, Alabama, May 9, 1844. My mother's name -was Tama and my father's was Thomas Windom. Our owner was Levy Windom. I -had 2 sisters and 2 brothers. I married Caroline Windom. She was owned -by the same folks I was, we had 11 children but only 2 is living. The -oldest one, Laura Richardson, I am living with. The other daughter's -name is Evergreen Richardson, living at 3100 Clark Avenue. Dey are both -Richardson's but dere husbands are not related. - -"I been living in St. Louis since 1923. When I was a slave, I had to -plow barefooted, hooked to a double horse plow. For 8 or 10 years of dat -time we had a white overseer in de summer. I did not only plow -barefooted but naked as well. In de winter dey allowed me a few clothes -but not many. I worked from daylight until dark, I didn't know nothing -'bout time. - -"Making and gathering crop was my biggest task. We made 500 bales of -cotton a year, besides growing wheat, potatoes and other vegetables for -the hands. I stayed on de plantation till way after de Civil War was -fought. If de slaves could get as near as East St. Louis and Ohio with -out getting caught, dey would join de Yankees and help fight for -freedom. But the Rebs wouldn't think of giving slaves any guns, as mean -as they had been to us. - -"Dey knew too well, we would shoot dem first thing. I remember well I -was in Tuscaloosa, Alabama and dere was a speech made dere by General -Forest on a Sunday. He said, 'Dere ain't a Yankee in 500 miles of -Tuscaloosa, Alabama.' So de Rebs was so happy 'bout dat, dey started -early de very next morning putting de flooring back in de bridge dey -done took out so de Yankees couldn't cross and get to them. - -"The following Tuesday night, de very next day I mean, don't you know, -dem Yankees come in our town cross dat very bridge. That same night old -Marse made us hitch up all his horses and git up all de flour, meat and -everything we done raised, and carry it up Tom Bilby River. It was a -swamp, to hide it from de Yankees. But, honey, dat didn't do a bit of -good, dem Yankees got all our stuff and us, too, and destroyed -everything he had. Us slaves was so mad at Old Marse, we helped 'em git -rid of everything, den went on back home, we had no where else to go, -and de war wasn't over and we hadn't nary a penny of money, child. No we -didn't. - -"I made my last crop in 1867 on dat very plantation where I lived all my -days. Of course we was free den or supposed to be free. Dey promised to -pay us, but we never got nothin', least not yet, Marse ain't paid me, -and he's dead now. In March 1868 dey sent to de field for all us hands -to come up to de house to sign a contract. We all went. We was so used -to minding old Marse when he sent for us we just mind right on like it -was still slavery. So I had always been mighty handy 'bout most things -so he wanted me 'bove de others, so he took my hand, put it on his pen -and held it right dere and signed my name hisself. I got mad as a wet -hen 'bout dat agreement he read to me. So he tried to make me feel good -saying he was goin' to give me half. I knowed better. - -"I felt dere was going to be some trouble up to de house, so I had a -pistol in my pocket, that had been dropped by the Yankees on purpose to -help us slaves shoot our way out. So I just told my old boss I ain't -goin' to do it, and when he raised up at me I just whipped out dat -pistol and everything in sight got out of my way. I was mad a plenty, -and I already always had plenty of temper. So while I had everybody -scared and excited I left and never did go back. I went to Columbus, -Mississippi, and stayed until 1923. All dat time I done share cropping -farming and made good. When I left dere I came to St. Louis and have not -worked since. I was too old for a job, but sister, I worked many a day -for two bits a day and churned all day to get milk to drink 'cause I -couldn't get no other food. I cut grass--mowed after share cropping days -were over. - -"I never had any schooling. What learning I got I picked up hearing the -children. I have 22 grandchildren, 9 great grandchildren. The first 3 -years in St. Louis I lived with my daughter Evergreen Richardson at 3100 -Clark Avenue. I am a member of The Church of God in Christ, on -Leffingwell and Bernard Street." - - - - -Jane Thompson - - - *Interview with Mrs. Jane Thompson,* - *Fredericktown, Missouri.* - -"I gets a pension from de Civil War. Wilson Thompson, my husband, fought -for seven years. He fought de Indians in de west. I gets $40.00 a month. -I have 21 grandchildren and 6 great grandchildren. I was de mother of 6. - -"My first boss sold my mother and I can remember her climbin' upon de -stile block made from de trunk of a gum tree. Dis was down in Zuca, -Mississippi, and de trees grew big down there. My boss was my father, -they claim. De boss was purty cruel. Our second boss did not believe in -slavery but his wife did. One of de daughters of de boss married and I -went with her as a slave. Then my boss, Burgess, was a Baptist preacher -and he would travel 'round. I would pick cotton, den I did de house -work. - -"I had two uncles dat ran off and nebber came back. Dey joined de war. -De Ku Klux Klan would come and claim dey could drink a bucket of water. -That was done so dey could get us to come out to dem. They would be four -or five in a gang. I 'member de soldiers comin' and killing chickens and -throwing them in de kitchen an having us to cook dem. - -"I 'member how de freedom come but we were taught fer a long time not to -know anything 'bout slavery. De only thing I knew 'bout it was bad -times. Even de boss would not let me stay in de house when he had family -prayers. At night before bedtime I would have to seed cotton and I would -nod from getting sleepy and den de boss would knock me over de head. But -I'm so glad de good Lord let me stay here to do something. I've raised -about 30 children. Most of my work as a slave was spent helping de -mistress, picking up her hankerchief, cleaning up de house, etc. -Sometimes I think slavery was a test dat de lord has us to go through. -It was through God dat Lincoln was given de brains and de talent. I -would find different friends to take me in after de war. Sometimes I -would have only two dresses. - -"I tell de old folks dat we is having slavery again. But de depression -is not as hard as slavery 'cause de government is helping de people now. -After de war we had parched wheat for coffee and corn meal with de husks -in it. Old Burgess' children helped me to learn to spell. De Boss would -make me spell words backwards. I remember a song, "Let's go down to de -water an be baptized", and 'Bound fer de promised land'. My Uncle would -play his guitar in his cabin at night. At Christmas dey would have a -dance on de plantation. We used to hang up our stockings and get a -little candy at Christmas time." - - - - -Sarah Waggoner - - - *Interview with Aunt Sarah Waggoner,* - *Savannah, Missouri.* - *(Written by G.K. Bartlett of Kansas City Office* - *from FC by Dovie Rose.)* - -A familiar figure in Savannah, Missouri is that of an aged, bent and -withered Negro woman with a little patch of white whiskers on her chin, -a cap on her head winter and summer; who is seen almost daily pulling a -little red wagon along the streets. - -"Aunt Sarah Waggoner", as she is called, lives alone in a small -unpainted house, almost a hut, near the right-of-way of the Chicago -Great Western Railroad; about three blocks southeast of the courthouse. - -The yard as well as the house is cluttered with all kinds of junk, odds -and ends which Aunt Sarah has picked up as she meanders through the -town. She has been a fixture in Savannah for many years and has the -friendship of the white people, who commend her faithfulness and -religious fervor. - -"How be you?" she asked pleasantly when answering my knock at her door. -When it was explained that her recollections about slave life before the -war were wanted, she beamed delightedly. - -"Yes'm. Come on in an' set, an' soon's I fix the fire I'll tell you -everything about slave times. Everything I kin remember." - -She wiped off a chair for her visitor, then busied herself at the old -wood and coal cook stove, where some vegetables were simmering in an -antiquated iron kettle, and "fat meat" was frying in the skillet. - -"I was a slave," she stated. "I was born in Kentucky. In Grayson or -Hardin County. I don't know which 'zactly, 'cause we lived in both -counties; an' I never did think to ask ole Miss Howard who raised me; -and I forgot to ask my mother if she knowed, and I don't think she -knowed." Sarah paused for a moment, then continued plaintively, "I wish -I knowed for sure." - -"Who was old Miss Howard?" - -"She was white folks. I was raised by de Howards. Mr. and Mrs. Jim -Howard. They owned me. We called him Pap, and her Old Miss. My mother's -name was Waggoner. She belonged to Mr. Howard too. My father he belonged -to another man and lived on a farm near us. No mam, no'm, we was never -sold. I'll tell you how 'twas. You see, Mr. Howard's father--he came -over from England. He called all his sons to his bedside at de last and -gave each of them some of de colored people and told them to take good -care of them and never to let them be sold. I had a cousin, June, who -was sold here at de courthouse door in Savannah. Him and another boy was -sold down South. - -"The Howards brought me from Kentucky to Missouri. That was befo' de -war. I've been here a long time. I'm 93 years old. - -"Sure I know how old I is", she remonstrated. - -"I's 93 years old right now (1937). And I knows my birthday too. I knows -it for sure. It come on February 17th. I'se sure about dat, for it comes -so close to dat of Abe Lincoln. His birthday is February 12th." - -Memories of the past surged through Aunt Sarah's mind and awakened -emotions. She rose to her feet, and speaking with the enraptured ecstasy -of her race when roused by religious fervor, testified. - -"I knowed about Abe Lincoln, 'cause his cousin Cap Lincoln; Yes, Cap -Lincoln, lived right nigh us in Kentucky. And he sure was a fine man! - -"I knowed about Abe Lincoln befo' he ever run for president. Long befo' -he was 'sasinated. You see, I lived neighbor to some of his kin folks. -Yes ma'am! Oh, yes, ma'am! Long befo' de war!" - -"Yes, Oh Lord! Yes, ma'am! - -"Abe Lincoln was jes' next to Jesus Christ. - -"Yes, Oh Lord! Yes! Dat he was! - -"Jes' next to Jesus Christ! - -"I remember when I was freed!" - -The exaltation of Aunt Sarah dimmed and faded, and with a quavering -subdued voice she whispered: - -"I wish I knowed. I wish I knowed. Abe Lincoln was born in Hardin -County;[3] in the same month I was; almost the same day. I wish I knowed -was I born in the same county he was, but I ain't never goin' to know. -Yes ma'am, I was moved with the Howards from Kentucky," she continued, -"right up to the Nodaway River, about ten miles from Savannah. It took -us about six weeks to come with oxen. I saw the emigrant trains goin' -through to Californy. - - [3] Abraham Lincoln was born in Larue County, Kentucky, February 12, - 1809. - -"That was befo' de war. I'se been here a long time. I'm 93 years old. -I'se been here since de woods burned, and I'm goin' to be here a long -time yet, 'cause my mother was a hundred and fifteen 'fore she died. - -"My, but the Indians was thick when I fust come here. And there was -buffalo; and there was deer; and there was quail jes' thick. I wasn't -skeered none of de Indians, and I ain't skeered of nothin' now. No, -ma'am. 'Cause why? 'Cause de white folks put de fust clothes on me, and -fed me; and they been doin' it ever since. - -"You wants to know what kind of clothes did we wear in them days? I'm -gwine to tell yer. I jes' had two dresses. De best one was made out of -plain, white muslin. I went out in de woods and got walnut bark to color -it brown. - -"I allus had to wash it on Saturday, 'cause we all had to go to church -on Sunday. Yes'm, I went to de white folks' church, and part of de time -I was de only nigger gal there. Then I had another dress and a shirt. I -made them jes' like Old Miss taught me. Dat was my work dress. It was -made with a cord 'round de bottom, a cord as big as my little finger, -so's I couldn't tear it; 'cause I went over fences like a deer. - -"De shirt was made like a long petticoat. In de winter old Miss made us -stockings out of yarn, and we had brogan shoes. Didn't you never see any -brogan shoes?" queried Aunt Sarah. "Don't you know what dey looked like? -Huh. Dey was neither lined or bound; and we used a peggin' awl to make -holes for the laces. Some of 'em had copper toes." - -"Didn't they hurt your feet?" - -"Yes'm, but if dey did hurt, we had to wear 'em anyway. Dem old brogans; -I'm sure glad they're gone. - -"Durin' de war, old Miss keep tellin' me I had to help her put new cloth -in de loom and when little Jane, tha's her little girl, wanted me to -play, her mother would say, 'Sarey has to work fast now, 'cause she -goin' to be free'. - -"Oh Lord, Miss, Sarey will never be free. But I was freed. Now I am -goin' to tell you about de home life. - -"I worked in de house for old Miss, and we had plenty to do and plenty -to eat. When de white folks was through eatin', I got a pan and got de -grub, and set on de floor and et it. Oh Lordee, but I worked hard since -I was twelve years old. But not in de fields. Old Miss she say dere was -plenty for me to do in de house, and dere was, sure 'nough. - -"I washed and cooked for all of us. And ironed too. I het de irons, -great big old irons, in de fireplace. I ironed on a quilt spread out on -de floor, and I ironed jes' as nice as anybody. I lived right in de -house with de white folks. In summer we slept, my brother Henry and me, -in a trundle bed in the kitchen; and in de winter made a pallet beside -de fireplace. - -"Old Pap was good to us. He kept up a fire all night when it was cold. I -never saw a cookin' stove or a lace shoe until I was freed. We jes' had -to burn our faces cookin' over de fireplace. I milked eight cows and den -put de milk away. Dat took a long time. They didn't have no horses then, -much. They had a yoke of oxen. Sometimes some of us was hired out to -work but we didn't get no money for dat ourselves. Dey drawed de wages. - -"No ma'am, dey didn't have no beauty parlors den. Huh. Old Miss never -had her hair curled, or anything like that. We didn't know nothin' about -face powder and primpin' up in dem days. Huh. Old Miss never used -anything on her face 'ceptin' soap and water. - -"Yes indeed. We sure did have good times, too. There was dances, and I -liked to dance. Uh-huh. I was a regular king ruler at de dances. Many a -time I danced till broad daylight, and den when I worked I was so sleepy -I'd nod, and nod. Then old Pap he say: 'Go out dere and make Sarey go to -bed'. Yes, indeedy, we had good times, too. - -"Did I ever get whopped? I never was whopped--much. Old Miss never -whopped me, 'cause Pap did all de whopping. He said if dere was any -whopping to be done he'd do it. Anyway dey never whopped me--very -often,--'cause I done my work de bes' I could. - -"I remember once, when Old Pap started off for St. Joseph, he rode back -into de yard and said to old Miss. 'Don't whop Sarey, or let anybody -else whop her, or I'll cut the hide off their backs when I gets back.' - -"Yes'm, we allus called 'em Pap and Old Miss. Pap wouldn't let me take -his name 'cause he was a Republican and believed dat de colored people -ought to have their own laws and doctors and all. He was afraid folks -would think he was a rebel and de soldiers might kill him. We didn't -dare take his name so I took my father's name of Waggoner. He belonged -to one of the neighbors in Kentucky and didn't come to Missouri when we -did. Yes'm, I had two chilun during de war, a boy, Bob, and a girl, -Mary; and later a girl, Minnie. Married? No'm, I never married. I never -was married. - -"Well, no'm, I didn't have a very hard time after I was freed. Slaves -wasn't hardly ever allowed to look in de door of de school house, so we -couldn't learn to read and write. When I was freed Pap tried to learn me -evenin's to count my fingers. He made me sit by the fireplace and learn -to count and learn about money so's de white folks couldn't cheat me -after I was free. After I was free one of Mr. Howard's boys taught me my -letters and helped me learn to read some. - -"After I was freed I went to St. Joseph and did housework. Den I was a -chambermaid. After while I came back to Savannah to work for de Price -family. Dey was mighty rich and had a big home. Place is still here. I -had a fine time there. I remember Mr. Ed. V. Price. He was just a boy -when I went there to work, and he did plague me terrible some times. -He'd run into the kitchen, grab a handful of cake dough and run outside -laughin'. - -"Then I got so I couldn't work no more, and he was a rich man, and he -always helped me. And he left me in his will ten dollars every month for -de res' of my life. Oh yes'm I'm to get my state pension every month. -It's goin' to be twelve dollars. I ain't got it yet, but I will fore -long. I ain't skeared. 'Cause de white folks put de fust clothes on me, -and fed me; and dey been doin' it ever since." - -With a weary, dimming of her eyes, old Sarah settled back in her chair, -sighed and murmured: - -"I been here a long time. I'm 93 years old." - - - - -Minksie (Minksy) Walker - - - *Interview with Minksie (Minksy) Walker,* - *Poplar Bluff, Missouri.* - -The following interview pertaining to former slaves and the conditions -under which they lived was obtained from Minksie (or Minksy) Walker, -seventy-eight years old who lives at the end of Davis Street in a -subdivision called New World, Poplar Bluff, Missouri. - -"I was one year old when de war broke out and six years old when it -closed. I don't remember the day or month I was born, but you can figure -out how old I am. My mammy's name was Blanch Walker, de name Walker come -from her belonging to Cannon Walker. He had two brothers, Sam and -Jimmie, and all their ground run together. I well remembers dem boys and -so does every one else. Dey was de best masters in all de south. Put all -their slaves together, dey owned about two or three hundred. I don't -know how much land dey had but it took a lot to keep all dat many -niggers busy. - -"I don't know where my parents was born, Old Virginia, I guess, but I -was born in seven miles of Dyersburg, Tennessee. My father was Nat -Parker and his master was 'Little Dan' Parker. He was kept on de Parker -place but mammy got to see him every Sunday morning. Dey lived about -five miles from us. Dey didn't get to talk in de evening 'cause de white -folks preached for us then. We was called together in de brush arbor by -a big bell dey rung. De arbor was as big as a square block here in town, -but dey was so many of us dat we filled it up pretty quick. De meeting -was about like it is now 'cept we didn't know half de time what dey was -talking about, we couldn't read and learn; had to listen to learn. - -"I well remember after meeting mammy would stop and talk with women and -she said, 'Minksy, dis is your aunt, my sister. You can walk along home -with her'. I was little and I would catch hold her dress tail to keep -up. She would meet other women and dey would start talking about de -meetin'. First thing I would know dey would be jumpin' up and dancin' -around and pattin' their hands until all de grass was wore off slick. - -"I didn't have no chance to go to school, but I was a little tad and did -not have to work very hard either. I wasn't big enough to hitch up de -team of oxen but some big person would and then I sure could drive them, -drove all day, and I can remember hauling tobacco to de barns all day. -We had several barns tall as dat tree, yonder (tree about 75 feet high.) -About all we raised was tobacco. Dat sure 'nough was tobacco country, a -little corn for de stock and we raised what we eat. - -"De only fighting I remember of during the war was on de farm of Dan -Parker. De soldiers met right in de middle of his corn and tobacco field -and when dey got through de tobacco was tramped in de ground and you -couldn't find a double handful of de corn. - -"I have always said I was like a shingle, not like a barrel of snakes. -You never saw a crooked shingle and you will never see a straight snake. -I have always practiced one thing and dat is telling de truth about all -things. Dat is why I can say I don't know much about de slavery times, I -wasn't old enough. I was just a slave and dat is all. I said when I was -a small boy, 'Lord, just give me de power to read de Bible, old blue -back speller and the hymn book'. He done dis and I know de Bible by -heart. I could preach for six years, and never tell all I know. I can't -write a word or read anything but dese books. For a while I did preach. -I traveled by mission. Didn't own a church of my own and didn't belong -to any special one. I guess I must have preached about five years. - -"I have been married twice, both my wives are dead. I don't know how old -I was when I first married but I had been free many a day. I went to -Dyersburg and bought de license. I got drunk and didn' get to Newbern, -Tennessee, where my girl lived until de next day. We had two children, a -boy and a girl. Dere names was George Earl and George Ella. Dere mother -lived nine years and when she died I give them to their grandmother. I -told her she could have dem and I would never bother around and I have -never seen dem since. Guess they are grown by dis time if dey lived and -are still alive, dey are the only kinfolks I have. - -"I went to Clinton, Kentucky, and married again. Dat wife just lived a -short time and then I moved to Arkansas and lived until thirty years ago -when I moved to Butler County and Poplar Bluff. I have lived on dis hill -all dat time and sometimes it gets lonesome but when it does I just gets -my Bible and reads. I spend lots of time since my mule died, under the -shade of dis tree, because I haven't anything to do anymore. I was just -thinking de other day in slave times you never seed an old nigger man or -woman allowed to rest in the shade. There was some work for dem. De old -women took care of de kids and de old men kept clean around the master's -door and barn yard. - -"Where I was we fared extra fine during slave times. Our master, Cannon -Walker, was a Union man. We had plenty pork meat to eat and fared fine. -He bought us good clothes and paid all the doctor bills when we got -sick. We had good houses too. We had to get up preety soon in de morning -but we didn't know nothing then. Our old mistress wanted me to call her -boy dat was de same age as me, Marster Tillie. I said, 'No, Mam, when he -call me Marster Minksy then I call him Marster Tillie'. Master Cannon -Walker did not allow any patrollers to boss his slaves when any of dem -was stopped on de pike and ask who dey belonged to all dey had to say -was Cannon, Sam or Jim Walker and dey never bothered them. - -"My father and oldest brother run away with de Yankees during de war and -we never heard of dem anymore. Our master give all de older men a place -to raise chickens. He give others poplar trees to make charcoal and dey -was allowed to make a little money on de side dis way. I remember -hearing mammy tell dat one year he give all his men twenty bushels of -corn a piece and dey took it to de still and had whiskey made out of it. -They put de barrel in de field and she said there wasn't very much -raised that year. - -"De slaves did not have to fight in de war but sometimes one would go in -to look after his young master. After de war and we was free, mammy -hired out to our old master and we stayed on there two years. Den she -married and we started moving from place to place. My step-father was a -mean man. I couldn't have been more den ten years old when he started -hiring me out by de day. I was hungry all de time because I had been -used to plenty of pork meat and all he would let me eat was parched -corn. One day I was working for Archie Dickerson, I was sick and he ask -me what the matter with me. I told him I had been used to meat and my -step-father would not let me have any. He called his wife and told her -to feed me meat every day, I never will forget him. - -"I didn't get any education but I don't care. Lawsy, dis is a free -country now, you can either wear shoes or go barefooted. Slave times was -alright before de war because we didn't know nothin' better, but I sho' -wouldn't like it now. I am an old man now and I get de old age pension, -so all I have to do is rest here under the tree and read my Bible." - - - - -James Wilson - - - *Interview with James Wilson,* - *St. Louis, Missouri.* - - _James Lives Alone At 87_ - -Living alone at the age of 87 probably is not a mode of existence that -would appeal to many. However, James Wilson, a former slave living in a -single room in the rear of 917 O'Fallon Street seemingly takes this -little matter of a lonely existence in his stride. James stands quite -erect, considering his years and his eyesight is good. His hair is white -and he is about six feet tall. - -When the writer called to interview him, both he and his room were -spotlessly clean. Sitting outside the door of his quarters James' mind -wandered back and forth through the years he has lived since he was born -on Christmas day, 1850, and, piecing together the bits of information -that he could recall, he told the following story: - -"I was born in Charleston, South Carolina, December 25, 1850. John -Wilson was my owner. He owned more than 700 slaves and a terrible big -plantation where he raised cotton, rice, corn, and cattle. Bless your -soul, daughter, he was a hard task master, yes he was. He owned big -ships, both kinds, for freight and passengers. He kept me running on dem -boats from de time I was 10 years old till I was 16. We sailed -everywhere. From New York to Rome, Jerusalem, Sweden, France and -everywhere under de sun transporting passengers, clothing, cotton, and -everything from one country to another. I handled de sails. It certainly -was hard work for me because I was so young, but I was an expert wid dem -sails just de same. Yes, I was. - -"But old President Abraham Lincoln taken me off dat boat, and I fought -in de Civil War. I lacked two months of fighting five years. I never -even married until 15 years ago, I married a woman 45 years old. After -we was married, she decided I was too old for her, so she just went on -off with a younger man. I never been de father of a child in my whole -life. I git a $13 a month old age pension to live on. Since I been free, -I made my living railroading, brakesman and steamboating. - -"I voted many times in my life and just can't feel right to vote nothin' -but a Republican ticket whether they ever get back in power again. I -never did have a political job nor had no friends had any that I know -of. I just can't explain how I feel 'bout this generation. Dey jes' -ain't doing right, dat's all. Dey jes' doing everything dey is big -enough to do. Don't regard nobody, don't care what dey say nor how dey -act to their own parents nor nobody else's folks. Dey just sets me to -worrying terrible sometimes, wonderin' what on dis earth gonna become of -dis here sin-racked generation. - -"Dem old Ku Klux was a bad lot of mongrels. Dey catch you out widout a -pass dey cut you 100 lashes, and you feel like you ain't able to go -nowhere again wid a pass or widout one. After de war was fought, I do -know some of dem old slave owners to be nice enough to start der slaves -off in freedom wid somethin' to live on till dey get on der feet, but -dey wasn't in droves, I tell you dat now, just a mighty precious few. -Den der was some others dat kept der slaves in bondage after de war, -just like before de war and de slaves, never know till der dying day dat -dey was free folks. Far as dat goes, down dere just below Sunflower, -Mississippi, and lots of other countryside places in de deep South, dey -got slavery right now. De only song I can think of we use to sing so -much was: 'O, Lord Remember Me'. - -"I can't remember none de other songs. I been all over de world, seen -how different races are in dere own lands, and I often sits and wonder -if maybe dese little fellows here now running about will see de equal -rights dat gits talked about now and den. But, daughter, you and me will -never see it. No we won't. I am a member of the Paradise Baptist -Church." - - - - -Mintie Gilbert Wood - - - *Interview with Mintie Wood,* - *St. Louis, Missouri.* - - _Ex-slave Blind But Happy_ - -The subject of this sketch is Mintie Gilbert Wood, 90 years old. She -lives at 4321 West Belle Avenue, St. Louis, Missouri, with her widowed -daughter, Emma Swift, 69 years old. - -In the living room of a 10 room brick residence located in the better -class section of the Negro district of the city, Mintie lives with her -oldest daughter and two granddaughters. The old woman has been blind for -8 years. She is quite bent and shows the burden of her years. She is -hard of hearing and her mind is no longer keen and alert. Her daughter -claims a recent illness has caused the latter trouble. However, the -ex-slave very feebly tells the following story. - -"I was born down in Bethel, Giles County, Tennessee, September 9, 1847. -Marse Carey Gilbert was my owner and I lived on his farm until 1892, -when I moved to little Rock, Arkansas. Marse Carey was mighty nice to -his slaves and he had a host of 'em. Can't begin to say how many. My old -uncle was de overseer of us younguns, about 50 young darkies, and he -trained us up till we get a certain age, then they turn us over to the -grown up lot, where the white overseer took charge of us. I don't -'member every thing so good, but I do de best I can. I 'member when -Marse Gilbert's daughter Miss Rebecca married Marse Maples, they lived -'bout 8 or 10 miles from her daddy's farm, and she use to come home ever -so often to visit. She looked so fine de slaves working in de field see -her coming dey all stop and rest on der hoe to look at her pass by on -her way to see her mamma, and she would tell 'em, you niggers better -pray my father never die. Cause if he died, I wouldn't 'low none you -niggers to lift your heads from de time you go to work till you quit. My -niggers work and never stop. Marse Gilbert gave her 4 slaves as a -wedding present, and they had a hard time, but her parents was mighty -fine. - -"Dey owned so much land, cattle, corn, sorghum, tobacco, millet, barley -and everything the very finest kind and the wealth was handed down from -one generation of the Gilberts to the other. Dey was so rich dey didn't -know how much dey was worth themselves, but dey was altogether different -than most of dem slave owners. Dey was prosperous 'cause dey was better -folks. When peace was declared everyone of Marse Gilbert's slaves dat -had sense enough and did stay wid him, got half of everything they -earned turned in on land and stock to be independent right der on de -same spot where we had been a slave. And he had so many of his family -and darkies, too, he has his own graveyard where everyone of us black or -white dat ever been in de Gilbert family can be buried without costing -us a penny. - -"He owned so much I can't begin to tell it, and nobody else I don't -expect. Right now a gang of his old slaves' children is livin' right -there owning and working property their parents slaved on, de old -Gilbert estate and his folks der wid' em, yes mam. None of us never -cared for Miss Rebecca. She made her slaves eat wid de hogs, even poured -der milk in the hog trough and de hogs and slaves ate and drink -together. She was worse dan de whole family of Gilberts. I get a blind -pension. - -"I never did learn to read or write, but my husband was a school teacher -and he never was a slave. He was a soldier in the Rebel army. I had 6 -children, 6 grandchildren, 3 great grand children and 3 great, great -grandchildren. I liked to sew, knit and make quilts fore I was blind. I -never used snuff or tobacco in my whole life. I have 2 sisters living, -one 82 years old, one 84 years old and a brother 87 years old. Dey all -live in Prospect Tennessee, where they were born and raised. My husband -died in 1914. Den I went back to Tennessee to live with my father until -1916 when I came to St. Louis to live with my younger daughter Lydia -King Davidson until 1920. - -"Den I was called back home on account of the death of my father. After -the funeral I went to Lonoke, Arkansas, to live with my oldest daughter, -Emma Swift and been with her often and on ever since. I only eat 2 meals -a day, that's breakfast around 7 o'clock and dinner between 1 and 2 -o'clock, the rest of the time I drink plenty water all day and all -through the night. - -"We moved to St. Louis in the year 1922. I just can't get used to this -younger generation. Dey sure is a reckless lot. Cause my life had plenty -work 'tached to it. When I was coming along I split rails, hauled wood, -raised de white folks family den turned right around and raised my own -family. - -"I believe in regular hours doing things, work, rest and everything else -it takes to make up life. I worked as hard after freedom as I did in -slavery. After all we got to work for a livin'. I don't believe in all -dis gallivantin' around at night. You ain't fit for no work in de day -when you don't rest at night. And I always believe in helping de fellow -who needs help and can't help hisself, much as I can. I even ask my -neighbors to save me all the old rags and bottles, anything they don't -want no more so as I can sell it and git hol' of a little somethin' to -help somebody, what ain't got some help like I got. I don't lose nothin' -for that, and I get joy out of it. I always keeps my little old pocket -book pinned in my pocket to put that little extra change in, and I got -it here right now and some change in it, too. I never did vote, and -never lived in Virginia nor know nothing about it. I do know de slaves -'spected a salary for der work when dey got free. Some of 'em got part -of de promise, but most of 'em got nothin' but de promise. My owners was -exceptions. Dere might of been some more like 'em but not many. At least -I never heard of em. All my old favorite songs us slaves use to sing, I -can't separate 'em anymore. I try to think of 'em, so I can sing 'em, -but I jest find myself mixin' 'em up, and can't tell one from the other. -Just singing. But the songs I like best dis day and time is 'Life Is -Like A Mountain Railroad', 'God Will Take Care Of You', and 'I maybe -blind, and I can not see, I may be crippled and I can not walk, But I'll -meet you at the Station when the train comes along." - - - - -Ellaine Wright - - - *Interview with Ellaine Wright,* - *Springfield, Missouri.* - -Ellaine Wright was born March 1, 1840 and is 97 years of age. Was born -of slave parents just outside of Springfield, Missouri, and lived there -at the beginning of the Civil War. - -Her father and mother's name was Evanson taken after "Marse Tom" Evanson -who owned both Ellaine's mother and father and sixty other slaves. Tom -Evanson was a wealthy farmer and ran a big hog and cattle stock ranch. - -Ellaine Wright, whose name was Evanson in slavery was married after the -war in 1866 to Pete Wright. She remembers the "Wilson's Creek" fight -between the Union and Confederacy and only a short time after that she, -with all the other Evanson slaves, was hurriedly taken south. The -Evanson slaves with many other of the district were shipped as far south -as possible to hide them from the Unionists. Ellaine Wright told of a -heartbreaking meeting between she and her slave mother when Ellaine was -just four years of age. Her mother had been sold to a slave trader and -was to be taken to another state. - -They permitted the slaves to say good-bye to their children and Ellaine -said she would never forget the few words her mother spoke to her just -before they were separated. "Ellaine, honey mamma's gwan way off and -ain't never goin to see her baby agin". "An I can see myself holdin onto -my mamma and both of us crying--and then, she was gone and I never seed -her since. I hopes I goin to see my good mamma some day, I do. Yes' I'se -goin to do it son, I sure is, yes indeed." - -Ellaine doesn't seem to remember anything concerning the Civil War. Just -this one important thing clings to her memory--her parting with her -mammy. - - - - -Sim Younger - - - *Interview with Sim Younger,* - *Sedalia, Missouri.* - *Geo. K. Bartlett, Kansas City, Mo.* - *Reference: FC by Kathleen Williams.* - -The two-story frame house, very plain in appearance, almost square in -shape, located at 400 North Moniteau Street, Sedalia, is the home of Sim -Younger, an interesting product of Negro slavery. He was born May 17, -1850, at Independence, Missouri; at the dawn of the "Golden Age of -Steamboating on the Missouri River" and is a pensioned soldier of the -Civil War. - -Traditions and customs of the Old South have stamped their influence on -the modest home. A porch extends across the front of the house and steps -lead to the front door, but neither the porch nor front door are used -much. They are for formal occasions. - -However, home life begins with the smaller porch on the south side where -bright flowered morning glory vines climb twine strings, their large -green leaves bringing sheltering shadows to Sim's favorite resting -place. Here is placed an old-fashioned hickory chair with woven cane -seat which is his haven of peace and comfort. - -The yard on this side of the house affords plenty of space for exercise -and a large catalpa tree spreads grateful shade. It was here, under the -catalpa tree that Sim Younger wanted his picture taken while seated in -his favorite chair. There is a quiet, soldierly dignity about the old -Negro that is striking and impressive. He is well preserved for all of -his 87 years and his keen eyes require no glasses. The impress of his -college education and soldierly training are evidenced by his -conversation, bearing and the lack of Negro dialect in his speech. - -He courteously expressed pleasure at the request for an interview on -slavery and invited me into the house. The living room where we talked -is large, the floor is covered with linoleum and a leather covered couch -stands against the wall. In the center of the room is a large oak table. -Other furniture consists of two plain oak chairs, but no rocking chairs. - -Sim lives alone, and while we were talking a Negro brought in his -breakfast; a pint of milk, an egg and two slices of toast. Although -urged, Sim would not violate his code by eating in my presence. - -"My father," he replied in answer to my question, "was Charles Younger, -the originator of the Younger family in Missouri, and grand father of -Cole, Bob, and Jim Younger. My father was my mother's master. She was a -Simpson. I knew Cole Younger well." - -Cole, Bob, and Jim Younger, known as "The Younger Brothers", were -notorious outlaws. It is recorded that Sim's father was the Younger who -operated a canoe ferry across the Missouri River from Randolph Bluffs, -in 1821, to what is now Kansas City, then known as Chouteau's Landing. - -"My father died when I was five years old, and left mother a farm on -which my brothers and sisters are still living. Father arranged for my -education and by the terms of his will I was sent to Oberlin, Ohio, -where I was reared by Delia Sheppard, in whose care I was placed." - -Sim Younger related that he attended Oberlin College, and graduated from -there in 1870. He did not see his mother from the time he was five years -old until he was the age of 21. When comment was made that he did not -use Negro dialect, Sim explained, saying: - -"That is due to my early training. Delia Sheppard gave me excellent -training, and I remember everything she told me, even when I was a very -little boy. - -"I will always remember one thing she told me," he continued, fondly -reminiscent. "I was just a little boy and she said, 'Sim, if, when -visiting, you find a pin on the floor, put it up and call attention to -it. It does not belong to you.' - -"Yes, ma'am," he continued, "I was born in slavery and I enlisted in the -Union Army, January 1, 1864, at Oberlin, Ohio, and according to the -National Tribune, I was one of the youngest soldiers in the ranks. - -"I was present at the battle of Petersburg, Virginia, July 30, 1864; one -of the disasters to the Northern forces of the war, and present on June -15, 1864, at the initiatory battle of Deep Bottom, and also at Cold -Harbor. - -"I was in the Ninth Army Corps, under Burnside, and was transferred -around, in front of Richmond, Virginia. - -"General Butler went down to Fort Fisher and failed, which was the last -open port of the Confederacy. Another expedition was organized and -General Terry given command. We embarked on the night of December 31, -1864; landed the morning of January 13, 1865, on the peninsula. On the -night of January 15, 1865, we captured Fort Fisher. - -"We had a terrible, terrible time landing! There was an awful storm! I -was told to jump overboard, and oh my! I swallowed a good deal of the -Atlantic!" - -He sat still a moment, living over in memory the thrilling events of -that night at Fort Fisher, then, saddened by the pageant of the past -evoked from memory's storehouse, he said: - -"I want to tell you of one of the tragic things that happened during the -war, and I was there and saw it. - -"It was at the Southside railroad, at Petersburg, on September 27, 1865. -I was put on picket duty. The 'Rebs' had built a fire and the wind was -driving it toward us. They began to holler and cheer, very happy over -the fact. - -"All at once we could hear someone coming toward us. The pickets opened -fire on what they thought were 'Rebs', and found out to their distress -that it was a bunch of recruits from our own lines. Many were killed." - -The shadow of this past grief faded from his countenance and in a -brighter mood he exclaimed: - -"If I could choose my weapons for the next war, I would choose -doughnuts, to be thrown at each other across the Atlantic."[4] - - [4] Bibliography: E. Miller, W.H., "History of Jackson County, Mo.", - Kansas City, Mo., Union Hist. Co., 1881. 1006 pp., illus., map. - Consultant: Pearly Smith English, Service Officer, American Legion, - (colored), Nineteenth and Missouri Street, Sedalia, Mo.] - - - - -Transcriber's Note - - -Original spelling has been maintained; e.g. "_stob_--a short straight -piece of wood, such as a stake" (American Heritage Dictionary).--The -Works Progress Administration was renamed during 1939 as the Work -Projects Administration (WPA). - - - - - -*** END OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK SLAVE NARRATIVES: A FOLK HISTORY -OF SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES FROM INTERVIEWS WITH FORMER SLAVES: -VOLUME X, MISSOURI NARRATIVES *** - - - - -A Word from Project Gutenberg - - -We will update this book if we find any errors. - -This book can be found under: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/35379 - -Creating the works from public domain print editions means that no one -owns a United States copyright in these works, so the Foundation (and -you!) can copy and distribute it in the United States without permission -and without paying copyright royalties. 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